Jumps racing...Another Dead

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by sherridin, Apr 24, 2011.

  1. sherridin

    sherridin Well-known Member

    Another horse is dead...
    At Oakbank, another horse fell and died. I know it's a touchy subject, but c'mon.
    Thats 4 horses in 2 weeks. Unacceptable in my eyes.
    I know all the arguements it for it and against it, but still against it.

    Please, Racing Victoria - BAN jumps racing. 1 out 20 is too many to die on the track.
     
  2. blitzen

    blitzen Gold Member

    awful... :(
    what's the ratio like in the UK?
     
  3. eventingchild

    eventingchild Well-known Member

    you realise careers and jobs are lost if this sport dies ?

    friend of mine is looking into being a jumps jockey, and if I didn't take back up eventing like I have I would have looked into it as well...
     
  4. Leti loves Elmo

    Leti loves Elmo Well-known Member

    You know jumps racing is made up of a lot of horses to slow for the flat? It gives them a second chance. If jumps racing is banned majority off the flat have no alternative but the knackery... A lot more will die if banned
     
  5. ellechim69

    ellechim69 Guest

    I am currently reading Bart Cummings book and in it he says that Jumps racing has got more dangerous because they were forced to lower the heights of the jumps so now the race is faster and if they put the jumps up to the origional height there wouldnt be as many deaths.
     
  6. Leti loves Elmo

    Leti loves Elmo Well-known Member

    Thats what happens when you let animal rights and people who know nothing about racing run our racing industry..
     
  7. ellechim69

    ellechim69 Guest

    That is pretty much what Bart said lol
     
  8. Pinkie_Pie

    Pinkie_Pie Well-known Member

    It's sad, and I don't like it but I do know a lot of people would be out of work and most of the horses would be sent to the doggers... they just need to make it safer... for horses and the riders. I know, easier said than done!
     
  9. sherridin

    sherridin Well-known Member

    Yep, I do realise all of this.
    Jumps racing is not a full time job, there are not jumps races every week. The way jumps racing is right now cannot continue. 1 in 20 starters die and that is just cruel, dangerous and unacceptable.

    Now, you can blame the animal rights activists for lowering the jumps etc, but it was racing victoria's own internal investigation that had the jumps lowered. Horses don't just die from falling over jumps, they also die from exhaustion, heart attacks, pulmonary oedema and embolisms from over exertion, bleeding attacks and other catastrophic injuries - MORE than in flat racing.

    The majority of horses are not fit enough and haven't been prepped well enough for the distance, jumps or to carry the weight. It's not just animal rights activists or your idiot race hater that wants it banned - even reputable vets want it banned.

    Yeah, so apparently many more horses will go to knackers - well hopefully now that racing nsw and racing qld now support 2 new bodies that rehome racehorses (racehorse outplacement program and HELP) maybe just maybe more will be rehomed.

    Yeah, so jobs may be lost. Well, I honestly don't have any sympathy for them. I could and would NEVER send one of my horses out knowing that the statiatics say 1 of these horses is going to die. Stick to flat racing.

    If jumps racing is to continue, then it seriously needs to evaluated. The horses going around are not educated or fit enough. The jocks are too heavy and some races are too long. Don't blame the jumps - an exhausted horse is going to fall at any jump regardless if it's solid, taller, smaller, flimsy etc.

    Horses die in all equestrian activites - rodeos, pony club, eventing - but that doesn't make it right. Yes, horses break down and die on the flat all the time - but the actual statistic is very low. I don't know - I just comprehend why it hasn't been banned. You can't have such a high rate of death, it's just plain cruel.

    Ban it FFS.
     
  10. sherridin

    sherridin Well-known Member

    Google the statistics for jumps racing deaths in australia. They are dispicable. Have a look at the amount of horses that died in jumps trials too and the history of them.

    It's just not acceptable. The trainers and jockeys need to take a look at themselves too.
     
  11. eventingchild

    eventingchild Well-known Member

    -.- have you really any idea ';'

    okay...

    1) For some people YES jumps racing is a full time job, there may not be races every week but the horses still need care/exercised, they still get trained everyday...

    2) "Horses don't just die from falling over jumps, they also die from exhaustion, heart attacks, pulmonary oedema and embolisms from over exertion, bleeding attacks and other catastrophic injuries"...these are rare and with the 'catastrophic injuries' couple weeks back we had a horse snap clean its cannon bone during work, next day at the races a horse snapped its leg...its more common than you think...and if you look overseas where performance riding is a big thing you will see these type of things happen in our own chosen sports...

    3) Majority of horses not fit enough, is that a joke you are telling every trainer they don't know how to do there job? Would you like to show us how to get a horse 'fit' enough.

    4) Have you got a spare paddock for a few thousand horses???

    5) IT is there job, trainers don't own every horse they train, other people do and then pay the trainer, its how they make a living. You are being dramatic and making it sound as though you are sending your horse out onto the front line, seriously.

    6) how dare you say the jockeys are to heavy, 60kg?? if you don't weigh under 60 I hope you don't jump your horse, and you better not event it, seeing as in eventing in the bigger classes you travel at speeds up to 570m...better still just never gallop it....jockeys to heavy what a joke.

    7) hasnt been banned because its not cruel


    Happy Easter you made my day
     
  12. JessiTrist

    JessiTrist Well-known Member

    Struggling to bite my tongue on this one. Have to agree with sherridan.
     
  13. sherridin

    sherridin Well-known Member

    Yeah, actually I do have an idea.

    Jumps racing is seasonal. Yes they need to be exercised and looked after but it is seasonal. There are not meetings every week and only a very small percentage of the entire racing fraternity actually rely on jumps as their only income.

    Why has it not been banned? Because people still bet on it and therefore makes too much revenue to be banned, it has nothing to do with trainers or jockeys jobs or livelyhoods. As long as people bet on the races, there will be races.

    Actually you're wrong about those injuries being rare - they actually make up the majority of causes of death. They are very common. Tired horses make fatal mistakes. Exhausted horses die. Go and actually have a look at how many horses get pulled up at every jumps race start and how many catastrophic injuries are fatigue related - then and only then you can tell I'm wrong.

    Too many trainers are sending ill prepared horses out there - it's proven by the stats. The horses are not educated enough, nor are they fit enough - if they were then the number of deaths to runners would be much lower. If trainers and jockeys were doing a good job, then ZERO or MINIMAL horses would be pulled up at each start. Actually GO AND HAVE A LOOK at how DNF there are in each jumps meet.

    You really are misinterperating what I'm saying about weight. It's a big ask for a horse to carry 60kg around a 4700m course plus jump 20 obstacles at 60km/hr - It is totally different to eventing and you know that. Eventing does not sustain a full gallop the whole course, horses are educated for many many years, riders are educated. Jumps racing is not in any way the same as eventing and should not even be compared. You're statement is dramatic. Trainers will scratch horses in flat racing over distance if carrying too much or they will seek an apprentice with a claim. 60kg over long distances and jumps should not be standard.

    I am in no way being dramatic - the stats are 1 in 20 starters will die. I could never send out a horse with that huge amount of risk. It's inhumane and cruel. Yes, horses do break legs, necks etc etc in training on the flat but the percentage is suprising very low. The amount of catastrophic injuries and related deaths in jumps training, trialling and racing is high..TOO HIGH. Go and look at the statistics yourself before you tell me I am wrong and dramatic. Because, I am right.

    Things have to change if it's going to continue. Trainers are not doing a good enough job, racing victoria is not doing a good enough job and it's either got to stop or change dramatically.
     
  14. Leti loves Elmo

    Leti loves Elmo Well-known Member

    Im so with you eventingchild. Sherridin you clearly have no idea about racing and are not part of the racing industry. You would not understand from reading statistics
     
  15. sunline

    sunline Well-known Member

    I just dont see how anyone can claim to care for their horses, then subject them to that.

    I dont see how the horses are 'fit' enough if half the field from the Grand National couldnt even complete the course, and 2 also died in that race alone.
    Not just any old horse makes it into that race, yet half the field couldnt complete it. What does that say about their trainers? didnt prep the horses well enough? or maybe is too freaking hard and they shouldnt do it.

    I work in the racing industry and I would prefer the poor horses get a humane death at the knackers than subject them to that.
    "ooh no we'll loose jobs"
    really? so you're telling me you can only shovel poo from a jumps horse, not a flat racing horse??

    we're supposed to be civilised human beings.
     
  16. sherridin

    sherridin Well-known Member

    yeah well actually i am part of the racing industry. I am not against racing as a whole but i am against jumps racing. You don't know me and where i'm from so don't attack my point of view. I've strapped and worked numerous group one horses and had many a racehorse in my care. Just because i don't like jumps don't attack my opinion. You can't dispute the facts. Go and actually look at the stats you'll be suprised! If jumps racing is banned no jobs will be lost. Jumps only prolong the inevitable, failed flat racers have more of a chance of re homing than failed jumps horses that are broken. Stats are everything, stats determine how many races when and where.
     
  17. Leti loves Elmo

    Leti loves Elmo Well-known Member

    Why did you not know racing was a full time job then?
     
  18. Banjo01

    Banjo01 New Member

    My opinion, if it means much..

    Without attacking anyones point of view, personally, I am much much more inclined to believe & support Sheriden here, they provided a better answer in all categories of argument, but Sheriden is also approaching from the very same point of view I do.
    Here are my thoughts;

    1. Yeah, it is a full time job. HORSES in general are a full time job. No one can deny that in any way/shape/form. But trying to say that just because a hose is trained everyday makes it fit enough for a jump race, well please, think again. A horse can only run so far before their heart begins to pump blood at ridiculous rates of 240bpm +, when the normality of this beating should be between 28-50bpm at resting rate. To exert a horse to the point that their body needs to find the energy to pump the blood around the body to all the muscles to restore whilst carrying up to 60kg and expect them to jump as well as run a distance of 2400m + , whilst excessively puffing in extreme agony to suck in enough oxygen to supply the heart with a way to keep on pumping the blood around, not to mention the functioning of the brainis cruel. Its insanely inhumane of us to expect this much of an animal who has no say whatsoever in the things they must participate in. Please consider this, it takes days, sometimes weeks for a raced horse to recover from a flat race, imagine the recovery rate of a tired jump racer. You may think they are fit to fun again, but really, would you even stop to consider that each time they run you are wearing their insides down more and more so that you are enhancing the risk of heart failures and fractured bones due to weakening by your pathetic effort to make some money, by forcing a horse to run wildly around a track? Im sorry, but that seems extremely selfish.

    2. To try and say that expecting a horse to carry anything over 60kg around an eventing course is cruel? I dont think so? :( It is not until a horse is carrying around 75kg at a consistant gate of gallop on a regular basis does severe damage begin to take place. Dont drag the limelight to another sport of interest.

    3. Rare injuries and catastrophes in the jump race world? :eek: you cannot be serious? This sport produces the most amount of injuries than any other equestrian activity worldwide, how could you possibly say these injuries and deaths are rare? I my self use to work in the racing industry and saw, weekly how many horses were retired for tendon injuries, exertion related setbacks, broken/fractured legs, ruined feet etc. and that was just the flat racing industry, I couldnt imagine the injuries seen in a jump race stable. .


    Please please consider the actual horses themselves before plastering a label on them with the well known dollar sign on their foreheads, horses are not machines, they do break down, and regardless of whether you think they should or not, they will, and its cruel for us humans to keep expecting them to run at stupid speeds over a course of jumps when the startling statistics keep running back to us with bad reports. I think its time to end this, and for people to find a better way to make a living.
     
  19. jess1925

    jess1925 New Member

    They'd die a much less painful death and possibly have a much better chance at being sold as a hack after failing at racing. They dont need to rely on jumps to ensure a good life if they can jump then they can make a good eventer and not suffer from premature arthritis and shin splints caused by stressing the horses body at a oung age.

    I'd rather see ten thousand go to the nackery than see 4 die in jumps every week.
     
  20. Leti loves Elmo

    Leti loves Elmo Well-known Member

    Unfortunately most that come off the flat dont have the option of being rehomed to an eventing home...

    And you might get your way and have 10 thousand killed instead of 4
     

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