Discussion in 'Horse Showing and Events' started by Smiley n Me, Jun 18, 2008.

  1. Smiley n Me

    Smiley n Me Gold Member

    OK - this has been on my mind for a while now - so just wanted to have a discussion about it (without any conflict I hope!)

    What rules do judges have to abide by? Is there a handbook?
    What are the rules in regards to showing under a friend, someone who trained your horse or you bought a horse from?

    I notice alot of people post on the forums that they are judging a certain show in which alot of stockie members attend.
    Do you as a judge not read or comment in that thread? Or do you see no harm in telling other members that you are judging? (I know it is abit hard when your name is on the programme as a judge - but what rules do you follow once appointed a judging position)

    I have spoken to a few judges that have told me it comes down to morales - so what do you, as judges or what do you as a competitor expect?

    I just find it interesting as everyone is different.

    I recently went up north for work and to help a friend at a show - ended up judging as the arranged judge could not attend. Therefore the moment I knew I was judging (2 days before) I did not associate with those I knew who were competing - did not even go out to the agistment centre/stables, or help my friend prep her horse, I even got dropped off at the show by someone non-horsey.

    Would love to hear everyones comments and thoughts. This is not a result of anything that has happened to me or friends - just some threads that I have noticed have sparked my interest!
    Lets try and place nice too so Mods dont have to edit or lock!!!
  2. Elanda

    Elanda Gold Member

    Shows should announce asap who is judging anyway. That way people who are not eligible to compete know not to go. Eligibility is under the EFA or SHC rules. It is a bit hard sometimes not to be involved with people that you are going to be judging as it is a small hacking community. I think as long as on the day you are not seen to be associating with ANY competitors during judging or beforehand. I would not intentionally seek out competitors I would be judging that weekend, but if they saw me on the street, I can hardly run away**)
  3. Smiley n Me

    Smiley n Me Gold Member

    Thanks for that Goodie, thats great :)
    Yes - I agree, it is hard because it is a small horsey community!
    Do you find that when people know you are judging - they may be more inclinded to approach you or do the right thing and respect that you will be judging on that day?
  4. Elanda

    Elanda Gold Member

    I find they run a mile, as they don't want to be seen to be talking to the judge...LOL:) Most people I find are very respectful and do the right thing. I am only judging Unoff at the moment, so can't say for Official ...yet :)
  5. Smiley n Me

    Smiley n Me Gold Member

    he he - thanks Goodie :)
  6. pso

    pso Gold Member

    Not sure about hacking (judging in hacking is SOOOO beyond my comprehension!)

    In dressage you arent meant to judge someone who you have given a certain number of hours of tuition in the previous 6 months....But this rule is waived in WA as there are so few judges...
    Most judges do refuse to judge classes that they have pupils in (and they often cant say who those pupils are, as organising committees have been known to pressure competitors into withdrawing, just so they can get a judge#( )...But sometimes there is just no choice! its a small horse community...and we all know each other....
    I would personally HATE to be judged by my coach! She knows everything I do wrong...and would be looking for problems before I do the movements! :p

    It does come down to morals and ethics.....;)
  7. Smiley n Me

    Smiley n Me Gold Member

    Thanks PSO - I wasnt too sure about dressage - thats great info.
    I agree - I would hate to be judged by my coach (when I had a horse and a coach that is, haha) - such high expectations!
  8. Cav

    Cav Gold Member

    There are handbooks and guidelines we have to follow. We dont just pick the prettiest horse you know. We are not supposed to judge people for example that we plait for, teach, family etc but we can judge people we know and are friends with provided we havent provided them with a service in said amount of time. If you want the judges guidelines get them from HC or EFA. A prime example of this situation was on the weekend where I had to swap rings because I couldnt judge my own pony!

    On the day of judging.....I switch off and judge what I see in front of me, I dont care if I spoke to you the day before or we went out shopping together last week...on the day I dont know who you are. We have a job and that is to select the best horse/pony on the day.

    So what if judges comment in a thread??? What has a thread on an online forum got to do with judging real horses and real people in the flesh....it should make absolutely no difference to a judges decisions on the day. Just because you might speak to 5 people online that are competing under you on the day doesnt mean they are going to win! LOL :D

    People do judge hunt though and will only go under certain judges. I think thats sad but hey some people will go to any length for a ribbon. At the end of the day, we as judges should all be looking for the same thing, a quality animal as per the guidelines that we are all meant to follow. Sometimes I have to wonder though what some judges are thinking when they put a ribbon on but competitors, parents and spectators need to remember....what we are looking for and what we see is not necessarily what you see! :)*
  9. Smiley n Me

    Smiley n Me Gold Member

    ha ha - thanks Cav. Wasnt so much what you look for when judging - more on judge ethics I spose! (damn about the prettiest horse bit tho... I was sure thats why my old mare used to win! LOL)

    I see what you are saying about commenting in threads too - again I spose it just comes down to morals and who feels comfortable to comment in a thread and then go out and judge them also.

    Great input - keep it coming :)
  10. samm

    samm Gold Member

    Its up to a judge to be professional at all times.
    You cannot judge immediate family or a person you have had business dealings with in a 3 month period of your judging appointment or you are an instructor of.
    The problem is WA is a small place and judges have to be used again and again at shows.

    I will not discuss my judging appointment with anyone apart from stating I am judging at that show if someone asks me if I am showing at that show.I do not discuss the show or what classes I am judging ,its just a simple no I cannot show there as I'm judging that day.Its up to them to find out what I'm judging not for me to discuss it with them.
    I've also been in the situation where someone has asked me to show their horse on that day and obviously I cannot if I'm judging so a simple no sorry I cant due to judging commitments is enough to set the record straight.

    Once at the show ,I might say good morning on the way to report to the show committee but that is all.I do not stop and engage in conversation with anyone.
    I will also address all competitors with a good morning in a class.....reason for this is I find it relaxes them and they are more inclined not to worry so much when working out.You can see some people its their first time out and they are absolutely terrified the judge is going to bite them.So a simple good morning usually brings a smile and they relax.Relaxed handlers make for relaxed horses.The time I will talk to a competitor is to explain why I have placed their horse where I have.
    I will write a show report for the committee if asked and send it to whoever has asked for it.
    I do not place horses because I might know someone ,as I will not put a horse down the line because I know someone and maybe not see eye to eye with them.Usually by the time I award the ribbons I get a shock to see it is a person I know as I just don't look at handlers faces!lol
    If your horse is put up under me on the day its because its damn well deserved it!
  11. Smiley n Me

    Smiley n Me Gold Member

    Thanks Samm - thats fanatastic feedback and clears up some of my questions! :):):)
  12. liver bird

    liver bird Well-known Member

    it is so hard here as its a small community but i must add that i hav noticed people go under certain judges all the time and seem to do very well is this merely coincidental or is it that the judge thinks that these people and there horses are the best regardless of what else is in the ring. the thing is even if favouritism is going on how can it be proven . if a judge is being political then you just hav to deal with it bcoz unless you hear it from the horses mouth then it cant be proven. you just go out and ride your best and be a winner that way:)*
  13. Tallarook

    Tallarook Well-known Member

    Well said Samm and Cav, you have covered most of it.

    Again it is a small show scene, judging exactly what is in front of you is what happens.

    Sometimes you will see a competitor going under a certain judge regularly, keeping in mind there is a limit of judges available and if a judge likes your horse well good for you.

    I have been around for years and years and seen many a competitor come and go in the show scene. It is interesting what lengths some competitors will go to, to win. But all in all if you have quality, present horse and rider, perform well you should be up there in the top end of the line up consistantly regardless of who is judging.

    I have had some competitors email me prior to a show telling me they will be competing at the show im judging at. I hope they learned from my response that is not the thing to be done.

    Happy competing

  14. Smiley n Me

    Smiley n Me Gold Member

    Thanks Liver Bird - yes, well said.

    Wow Scorpio - silly ppl to do something like that! :) And thats great that as a judge you tell them its not the done thing. Thumbs up!
  15. Cav

    Cav Gold Member

    Someone tried to bribe me once....with an orange juice :)

    I politely told them that I dont accept bribes and could they please not converse with me further about the subject.

    It was funny because I didnt even end up judging that person, they were in another ring! And they didnt win anyway :)*
  16. cobbie

    cobbie Gold Member

    Was thinking this last night...but if you go to a showjumping event and the jump judge is your jumping instructor, can you compete or does it not apply to SJ because its not judged on "you" as such but the jumps/time etc?? I won't have this problem as I don't think shes judges at comps but in general im interested
  17. samm

    samm Gold Member

    What I cant understand is why someone would want to win that way anyway!
    As I show as well as judge ,I like to know my horse has won on its merits and I would hope people would think the same about me when I judge their horse....its won on its merits.
  18. Cav

    Cav Gold Member

    DITTO Samm! I like to win knowing it was because I deserved it :)

  19. liver bird

    liver bird Well-known Member

    bloody hell cav it could hav at least been a six pack of bundy hahahah:)*
  20. buggalugs

    buggalugs Well-known Member

    sj is very diff, you can of course be judged by you instructor because the test is not based on opinion, simply on your ability to get around the fences.

    im not sure about showing, but i have had instructors from pony club judge me at events and will have a full conversation with them at the car, knowing full well that this should never affect their judgement, the only thing knowing the judge will do is perhaps get you a few more comments on your test, some clearer indication where you went wrong and where you can improve and what was good. i dont really mind either way, because all the judges i know are particularly fair and will only give marks where they are deserved!!

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