Its just a note to say.........

Discussion in 'Colour Questions' started by dun, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. dun

    dun Active Member

    For the horse buyers that are looking for a buckskin and then buying a so called buckskin and it has a dorsal stripe-- bucksins do not have a dark dorsal stripe.I have read and read on horse sites that have bucksin horses for sale.The horse is a Dun.
    Tiger stripes,leg and neck barring and cobwebbing are dun factors.
    Hope this helps and if you want to know about coloured horses I am open to chit chat on this hot topic of mine.... LOL
    I breed coloured QH's so I hope I can help if needed.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  2. Coda Cowgirl

    Coda Cowgirl Well-known Member

    actually i believe that some buckskins can show dun characteristics without being a dun and it is not uncommon for a buckskin to have a dorsal stripe!
     
  3. Tintara

    Tintara Well-known Member

    Coda Cowgirl is quite correct - quite a few buckskins have dorsal stripes and various other sundry 'dun' factors but they are not genetic duns. No horse is a true GENETIC dun UNLESS IT CARRIES THE DUN DILUTION GENE. Same as a golden flaxen chestnut is not a palomino cos it doesn't carry the cream dilution gene, irrespective of how much it might look like one.

    False dun factors are found on pretty much every colour - there is a theory that all horses carry 'primitive markings' to some degree but when they also carry the dunning dilution gene their base coat is diluted leaving the dun factors clearly evident. There is an excellent website that goes into the specifics of false dun factors or countershading - duncentral.com.
     
  4. mirawee

    mirawee Gold Member

    I have a bay with a very strong dorsal stripe and I know of several others. Plus a couple of buckskins with no dun parentage. So would you say they are duns?

    As has been said, a dorsal stripe doesn't make a dun :)
     
  5. kiraSpark

    kiraSpark Gold Member

    I have a chestnut going grey, with a ripper of a dorsal stripe. **hunts around to find a photo**

    He is from a TB mare (no dun there) by a chestnut QH stallion who as far as Im aware has never thrown dun progeny (at least none of his registered ones are).

    I am kind of curious as to why he would have one. :)
     
  6. Wrangler Miss

    Wrangler Miss Well-known Member

    I agree with Coda Cowgirl :)

    I had a burnt Bucskskin with a dorsal stripe!
     
  7. mudslide

    mudslide Well-known Member

    3 of my standies have obvious dorsal stripes, I wish that made them duns but it doesnt :p
     
  8. mav

    mav Well-known Member

    my boy has dorsal stripe (obvious), barring, cobwebbing, 'saddle' marks on withers but is bay...

    could i couunt him as a dun?!!!!!!!
     
  9. dun

    dun Active Member

    Sorry mine was to short about duns LOL

    To be a dun horse, the horse must have a dun dam or sire to have the dun gene.Hard thing is that the markings that help to make a dun horse recognizable can be hard to find as it can be FAKE so to speak LOL
    A dun horse must have a dorsal stripe and leg barring to say the very least if parentage is unknown and you are trying to find out what colour it is and not just counter shading which can be on alot of horses.
    If you have a horse and neither parent was a dun its not a dun.It doesnt have the dun gene.
    All the different types of duns are listed on duncentral and I totally agree that it is a tricky one to reg when heritage is hard to get hold of.
    When I wrote the other letter I didint go into it enough to explain myself.Sorry about that.I had a BEEEE in my bonnet as a friend has just been sold a dun and its a bucksin.It just got me going LOL
    I find it hard enough in the horse industry to sell and cross my fingers that the horse has a good life as it goes into someone elses float and leaves my farm let alone sell horses ane lie basically to a client of what color it is- I realise its a hardy to pick sometimes.**)
    I now have a dunalino in my paddock I bred with my cremello.I will post a pic if anyone is interested.Cheers
     
  10. Wrangler Miss

    Wrangler Miss Well-known Member

    I would love to see some piccies of the Dunalino :)

    That's cool Dun, we all have craly pants days - Like you said, I have horses with 1 dun charateristic but unless they exhibit a minimum of three they are just thatm, a buckskin or chestnut, or bay, etc :)
     
  11. dun

    dun Active Member

    No wonder its confusing

    On the AQHA I note since 1987 that they have classified a horse with a dorsal a dun and without a bucksin?????? Its a great site but no wonder people looking at getting into breeding coloured breeds are scratching there head:confused:
     
  12. Tintara

    Tintara Well-known Member

    You got that right but they aren't alone - the Welshies still use the terms cream and dun to denote palomino and buckskin (fortunately there aren't too many true dun purebred welshies). The ASHS are another who (as yet) have no distinction between dun and buckskin but with more and more breeders becoming aware of colour genetics and wanting their rego certificates to be 'correct' pressure will start to be put on these breed societies to 'get it right'. Some of the AQHA staff are aware of colour genetics - I have had the odd phone call from them asking if such and such a result is possible from a particular combination of parentage.

    And some buckskin associations still haven't got it right themselves incidentally - they still class something as a dun if it exhibits x number of characteristics. A horse can have every single characteristic, and I've seen a few that have at least 4 or 5, but if it doesn't carry the dunning gene it isn't a genetic dun. I also know of at least one Buckskin association here in Australia that won't register red duns because they don't look like buckskins ie they don't have black points.
     
  13. shyloh

    shyloh Well-known Member

    Hi Dun @)
    Would really love to see a photo of your Dunlino **)
    I have been told my boy is a Dunlino Palomino with a reddish dorsal stripe still trying to figure out if the reddish brown marks on his front legs are actual leg barring. I might send is photo to Dilutes Aust maybe they can tell me what he is.
    Look forward to the photo's :)
    Cheers Shyloh :}
     
  14. Webby

    Webby Well-known Member

    Ok what colour would you say this is.............

    All points are brown, brown mane and tail but with frostings, there are grey hairs through the coat, minimal tiger striping and no real dorsal stripe
    Sire is Reg as a dun and Dam a chestnut.
    Mare is reg as a dun
    And as Tintara said - These are Welshie registrations


    [​IMG]
    Photo courtesy of Shooter Photographics
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2009
  15. Wrangler Miss

    Wrangler Miss Well-known Member

    I was reading through the AQHA Rule Book Last night and interestingly enough it says under the description for Buckskin - does not exhibit a dorsal stripe!

    I have had bucky's with dorsel stripes that could not be genetically Dun ????
     
  16. Tintara

    Tintara Well-known Member

    Webby, I'd say brown buckskin **) cos she has that 'golden' look to her and what appears to be creamish hair in the ears but a DNA test would say for sure unless of course she produces a cream dilute to a non-cream dilute stallion.

    I know of genetic duns that are registered as buckskins with the AQHA too probably because the owner sent in a photo of a funny coloured newborn foal and asked them what colour they thought it was........... Obviously the dorsal stripe wasn't visible in the photos or they didn't pick up on it.

    Shyloh, for some reason many palomino duns (dunalinos) do exhibit seemingly 'non-diluted' dun factors ie they are red rather than gold. It is thought that possibly the presence of dun restricts or impedes the diluting effects of cream on certain areas of the body, notably those areas where the primitive markings are. A lot of buckskin duns (dunskins) also have undiluted primitive markings. But ........ who really knows for sure.

    Dunalinos are eligible for dun registration with Dilutes Australia incidentally.
     
  17. dun

    dun Active Member

    A pic

    I will get some pics today and place them up of a foal and see what all that love colours reckon???:)*
    I have a QH gelding that is a buckskin ( fingers crossed:)) as no dun gene either side.He was born on a farm near mine.Will get a pic of him too.
     
  18. KINGSBONES

    KINGSBONES Active Member

    Im not sure but is there not a type of horse i think from south america somewhere that is buckskin in color with dosal stripe and those zebra markings? A stallion we had use pf for a bit was a QH but had these markings but was told he was bucky whan i was looking through my books his descripion matched this breed of horse to a tea but bugger it i cant remember the name. Iknow a little off topic but close enough. Definantly not a color expert i always thought dun was the american term for buckskin lol haha*#)
     
  19. Tintara

    Tintara Well-known Member

    A horse can carry both cream and dun which turns them into palomino duns (dunalino in USA terminology), buckskin duns (dunskin in the USA), cremello duns or perlino duns. Then there are the ones who also carry silver (mostly minis which should come as absolutely NO SURPRISE to anyone*#) ).

    Norwegian Fjords are always dun in colour but nobody really knows for sure yet if the dun they carry is the same as the dun we're all familiar with as they look a little bit different colourwise.

    There are also brindle horses which have traditionally been lumped in with duns ie brindle dun but it has now pretty much been proven that brindle has no association whatsoever with dun.
     
  20. dun

    dun Active Member

    What do people look at when.....

    What do you look for as signs for what colour a horse was if you were as a eg, wanting to buy a dun?? Is is a buckskin or a dun you are looking at??
    I am just interested to know what others look for to identify this tricky colour choice.Cheers
     

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