HP Clinic 1 - 3 Oct

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by cobbie, Oct 2, 2010.

  1. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    John's own reply to this forums antics...

    "borrowed from John's web site"

    FORUMS

    Some People with 'Chips on their Shoulders and Axes to Grind" frequent Horse Forums. The 'Tall Poppy Cutters", the unhappy, dissatisfied, jealous and much more. They have mainly given up on me because I wear my 'Heart on my Sleeve' and hide nothing. Open Book.

    There is a Bun Fight going on on a Perth Forum I am told, over a Horse that fell over when Trevor Jennings was starting to Mouth it. I didn't see it and am most unhappy that I wasn't told about it until later. Breaking in Horses and particularly working with Problem Horses or abandoned Horses is a dangerous job and none of us would have been there if we didn't have the best interests of the Horses at Heart. I am aware of a touch of Politics that went on at my Clinic, behind my back and I am not happy about it. I never cause Horses to go over, Fred Watkins doesn't and I don't think Clint does but I didn't see a lot of him because he had a Family Crisis (Health related) Trevor comes from the Bush and gets presented daily with the Rankest of Dangerous Horses, Horses that City People never see, jumping out of 7 foot Round Yards on delivery. He was a little over exuberant but not any more. We all stuff up at times and we all learn. He was there to learn, to rise to the occasion, to head down the road to add sophistication to his work, admitted to people to send certain Horses that he worked with up to me as he is a 10 ride Breaker and held up one of his Own Horses for 6 Weeks so that it too could be examined and assessed by me. A highly dangerous Horse indeed. He too is an Animal Liberationist. As I said, I am not amused that I wasn't informed immediately but both Clint and Trevor, who I had there to assess and improve, are coming now to Gainsborough for a Weeks intensive lessons with Mrs. HP. As I said at the Clinic, he is a 'Gun Breaker' and Rider and will rapidly improve further from here on. I had the two extra Lads there to work with them and to be able to help more Horses. To do that I cut my prices by more than 2/3rds behind the scenes. So read my Lips, there is nothing whatsoever dangerous about any of my systems. It saves the Lives of Horses and People, ever day.

    Having said that, on Sunday, he wowed the Crowd by riding one of the most Dangerous Horses you will see, in order to find her Demons, and is carrying on a 3 week test on her based upon our observations. It would be appear to be Bit or Mouth related and he could already feel a difference in her at the Clinic, during the Ride, with my Myler on instead of a Nut Cracker. Wow Factor Pics to come another Night.

    PROBLEM HORSE WORLD
     
  2. Snippit32

    Snippit32 Well-known Member

    Thanks Sharaway- I was just about to post it myself. It's unfortunate that it's easier to focus on the negative, as many horses and people (myself included) were helped immensly by the trainers time and effort. I know that I can't judge the mistakes of Trevor, as I've never been in his shoes and I wasn't a witness to what happened. But know that I have made greivous errors when working horses myself, and it's only the fact that I'm not getting paid to train, that gives me the grace to stuff up without getting sh*t on. Yes, he is a pro, but I understand what John's talking about re: the difference between "city horses", and those of the bush, they are a new kettle of fish that take a different level of understanding. Personally I think it took a fair bit of guts to show up, knowing you're the "green horn" in the O'Leary way, and do your best- stick it out even when you stuff up (maybe he should of asked for some help tho), and then risk your neck in front of hundreds, riding a dangerous horse in an indoor arena, something that neither of them have done in the past.

    I'm sorry that you weren't happy with what you got Kris; I am thankful I got to see a side to a breed that I've never really had the chance to handle personally. I have a new found respect and love for the heavy breeds thanks to your participation. :)*
     
  3. ZaZa

    ZaZa Guest

    I've been following this thread and have found it to be intersting reading *#)
    Can someone please clear up some confusion for me......

    Did the horse simply 'fall over' as Mr HP says or did it flip over as mentioned in the thread, due to an error made by the trainer ?? Because the 2 scenarios are poles apart IMO.

    It's interesting that Trevor was there to learn and better his skills and for Mr HP 'to assess', and yet Mr HP wasn't even overseeing the work he was doing ';'

    I haven't seen it written anywhere in this thread that it was the system itself that was to blame :confused:
     
  4. shelllouise19

    shelllouise19 Active Member

    Ok so what I saw when the shire fell over was when TJ asked her to ORS/bend/what ever you wanted to call it, she resisted and instead of bending she went up, slipped on her feet and fell over. She then got stuck in the ropes and patiently waited for someone to get her out. Which is when both Clint and Trevor went over and removed the gear and the horse got up.
     
  5. Janet Winter

    Janet Winter Guest

    Sorry I am a little Confused with this statement what is the difference between city horses and horses from the bush LOL I think he was referring to the person been a bushie which is also confusing.
    We have met Trevor and from what I can gather he mainly deals with horses sent from the city and possibly horses that nobody else will touch , he was extremely proud to be going to this clinic, but I wonder how he feels now I do hope he can rise above all of it and move on.
    I think it is appalling what gets said on this forum and also I take my hat off to him putting himself in a position which is now obvious a huge mistake on his part and also should have been done with the Guidance of who he obviously regards as a mentor.
    I thing you people need to take a deep breath and stand in front of a mirror and have a close look at yourself. People go to clinics to learn most send horses to clinics because they have a problem, whatever it is I feel your best and most mature way to give your opinion is to the ones that ran the clinic not a one sided debate on a forum.
    :)
     
  6. ZaZa

    ZaZa Guest

    No Janet, he was referring to the city horses v's bush horses.
    The bush ones are far more feral, unruly and often harder to train apparently :}

    I wasn't at the clinic but from what I'm reading in this thread, this statement ^^^ sums it up. TJ was there to learn and improve his skills but wasn't being giving the necessary guidance or supervision. Mr Hp is only one person, but perhaps, in hindsight, the clinic format should have been altered to allow for this or perhaps even have waited till after TJ had attended the one week intensive course with Mrs Hp before bringing him in on a problem solving clinic.
     
  7. SMR

    SMR Well-known Member

    Well said Janet!

    I certainly hope that Trevor doesn't take to heart what a handful of people have said. We need more trainers who are willing to learn and are open enough to have every move watched. Hopefully, Trevor will realise that it is the unfortunate nature of forums where a handful of people always seem set to hide behind their computers and pull reputations to shreds. Tomorrow, it will be someone else.
     
  8. Black Ice

    Black Ice Well-known Member

    My two cents worth... I thought the clinic was fantastic **)

    Both John and Linda are lovely, approachable people who call a spade a spade and don't beat around the bush when it comes to horses.

    Like a lot of others I loved watching Fred work, he is just absolutely amazing!

    When I first got there on the Saturday the first thing I heard about was Trevor and the poor mare, so I have to admit I was a bit biased against him from the get go. But over the two days you could see he was trying so hard to learn all he could... and riding his "wife" in his first dressage lesson with all us women watching?!?! Good God, no one could pay me enough to go through that!
     
  9. ZaZa

    ZaZa Guest

    I have another question. I've just been reading throught some letters about the Perth clinic on Mr Hp's website and I came across the letter about Tilly, the black riding pony mare.
    An extract from the letter .....
    Can anyone tell me what diagnosis Mr HP made that 3 vets couldn't ? What or where did he think the unsoundness was coming from ?
    What did he see, or what did the horse tell him that others (vets for that matter) hadn't been able to pick up on in the 5 years the current owner had had this mare ?
    Making the decision to have the mare euthanased doesn't come lightly :( A very brave owner indeed.
     
  10. lulubelle

    lulubelle New Member

    I am very sorry I missed the clinic, I would love to take my horse for assessing/lesssons/whatever with Mr and Mrs HP and really hope they come back again.

    I may not like what I hear, but I would accept it as it's all about the horse and to help me learn to understand...and that is a very good thing. Sometimes we've got to swallow our egos, what we think is wrong or right, and look outside the square....from the horse's point of view, and think ...Yeah, I can see that now. After all, how many of us do things to our horses in the course of normal every day life, that maybe isn't really such a good thing after all!
     
  11. shelllouise19

    shelllouise19 Active Member

    Tilly...There was some unsoundness that wouldnt come up in standard vet checks. I just cant remember exactly what it was but at the time it was completely understandable.

    It was also something to do with not selling her on to put the burden on another person.
    She was also a very marey mare who would tease herself on the fence/sprinker/anything and everything and the owner wouldnt ever consider breeding from her because of the unsoundness issues.

    when mrs Hp put her through her paces the unsoundness was obvious. and im pretty sure that everyone there, whilst its a sad outcome, agreed with what the owner said - least thats what i was overhearing around me.

    Just really frustrating that it is eluding me what was exactly wrong...argh!
     
  12. Black Ice

    Black Ice Well-known Member

    I think I also remember the owner saying she wouldnt breed her because her conformation isnt the best?

    The soundness was in the off hind area.... remember when Mrs HP was cantering her and she put her weight over that area and Tilly would start sort of bunny hopping to avoid the weight?!?!
     
  13. corporate pride

    corporate pride Well-known Member

    TILLY...from what i can remember she had hind end lameness. somewhere up top of her butt ... i think ... i enjoyed the clinic heaps, i didn't hear about the incident with trevor and i wasn't there so i'm not gonna comment and fame flames.
    i watched the shires and learnt that my horse has a crap mouth, i mulled over it watching and talked to mr and mrs hp and asked about my horse pawing, he told me that i need to level his head as the pawing issue is a product of the racing industry, i agree. he also told me to get him hobble trained and remouthed, i agree. so i'm saving up and getting him remouthed for the new season :) the hobbles will help with the pawing issue. mrs hp told me to get a different breed next horse :) hahahaha i luv TB's though! so i know where she's coming from with all the race related issues.
    i have a photo with mr hp and he looks shorter in the round yard (especially when he had trouble getting off the shire :p ) and had a laugh about some stuff. both john and linda are approachable and i luved watching the cowboy dressage lessons, the guys aregreat riders and picked it up every quickly.
    i had a positive experience and it's a shame if ppl didn't see the positive to focus on.
    i was keen to meet clint in person but he wasn't there on sunday :( but oh well when i take marco to be remouthed i will meet him
     
  14. shelllouise19

    shelllouise19 Active Member

    Thats right! she did that funny on the spot canter with the back 2 feet together! looked like she was cantering backwards but forwards if you get what i mean...*#)

    makes you wonder how much your own horse is being "naughty" and how much is pain related!
     
  15. cobbie

    cobbie Gold Member

    She was very clearly sore somewhere, I heard the owner talking after saying she was donating her to science to investigate the problems, it is a shame but I would say the horses best interest, there was certainly something not right

    I think its a shame John has to defend himself but I guess you can't please everyone :S I enjoyed it anyway :)
     
  16. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    I didn't go to the clinic due to a few issues, but i would have loved to.

    But i gotta say one thing ... Wow.
    And you wonder why people stay quiet about different methods. Look what happens when they offer themselves to the community.

    I don't know Mr HP (apart from his site), and i have never heard of Trevor.

    But maybe before taking a horse to a clinic, do a bit of research about the methods and see if it agrees with your opinions. If you don't like the way someone works with a horse, here's an idea...don't give them your horse to work with.
    If i saw something i wasn't happy with, i wouldn't have let the person handle my horse. Period. Even if i had paid for it in advance.

    I wouldn't be surprised at all if Mr HP didn't do another clinic here. If it were me, i wouldn't want this afterwards either. Never mind all the politcs that must have gone on during the clinic.
     
  17. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    I would like to finish my posts with ;

    Overall - from ALL learning aspects, this clinic was superb. I learnt about horsemanship/training/feel and timeing from every angle.

    I will be, looking to travel over to SA myself, at some point in the future and learn more from this fantastic HP team. I dont know if this can happen, but I look forward to trying! **)

    I think that perhaps, those who did NOT attend the clinic, could perhaps refrain from negative media,negative even about the nature of this thread :) - and those who have an opinion about what they actually SAW at the clinic, as it was such a valid experience, and feel strongly about it to put their name, and heart to it, not hide behind the anomininity of a cyber forum.

    I feel the way I did - and I will contine to....Eoroe is NOT my identitiy, it is my login - and I am in reality, Nancy, and I feel NO different by saying to another from my own lips, or fingetips.

    Still feeling the same way about things - still feeling I didnt pay ANYWHERE enough to even touch on what this clinic was worth **)

    Nancy Ellison

    Wagin, WA.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  18. snoopydoo

    snoopydoo Well-known Member

    I'm with you Eoroe
    I had an awesome time at the clinic.
    Whilst, I obviously feel for Kris (??) who's horse was injured and can completely understand her dis-satisfaction (gorgeous horses btw - loved the black one especially!)

    I feel that some owners have put unreasonable expectations onto a 3 day clinic. The horses were worked at best for half an hour twice a day and I don't think that any problem can be adequately cured in that time over 3 days. Certainly the spectators could see a difference in the horses over this time and we could almost see the penny drop as the horses overcame some of their demons, however this cannot be the complete cure - surely the owner will have some serious homework to do to complete the rehab process. Ditto for breaking. The horses were sat on but this in my mind does not constitute the finished product. If you sent a horse to HP or FW to be broken in - it's take more than 3 days!!
     
  19. taeliesyn

    taeliesyn Well-known Member

    I don't know about that, but I do know that there is the starting motions for clinics in the other states, and I seem to have got a rather more lasting position as Mr HP's PA/Secretary than it originally seemed :)*:D
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  20. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    hahha! soooo.....it sounds ike your the man I need to talk to.......PA/Secretary/bouncer/bodyguard....lol I could always offer my services of stables, mucker outer for a week or 2.....then just 'hang out' near the round yard - gotta soak it up where you can! :p
     

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