Discussion in 'Colour Questions' started by primrosecourt, May 19, 2009.
i have NO idea. LMAO!!
just breed 2 horses and hope for the best??
if the stallion is a Buckskin then he his offspring have 50% chance of being a dilute (not neccesarily bucky, could also be pally).
Because a bucky is dilut of Bay, you will have a better chance of another bucky from another bucky or bay.
The best buckskin combination is perlino x bay (homo agouti will give best chance)
Dont want to start a 'discussion' but.....
I admit I was only just trying to grasp the buckskin/colour thing and may have come up with the wrong terminology or idea but you commented that grey dominates every colour....
A grey bred to any solid colour will not allways produce a grey! If your in doubt look up the Arabian Stallion 'Sindh', he was a chestnut till he died and had one grey parent.**) Indeed my gelding was a grey who was born chestnut and was pure white when he died at the age of 30. he had 1 grey parent and 1 chestnut parent. One of my mare's is a chestnut and she had a grey dam. She is a definate chestnut and will not grey out.
(Quotes below are from the book "horse Colour explained by jeanette Gower")
Grey bred to Grey can produce any colour recognised within the breed.
Grey bred to a grey will produce grey only 75% of the time unless one of them are homozygous.
A homozygous grey will produce grey 100% of the time and have two grey parents.
Grey is not a colour but a pattern superimposed over other colours.
Grey is the result of a dominent gene that MAY mask all other colours.
Dont want to offend you but you implied that grey bred to anything would produce grey and grey only. I just wanted to set that straight.)
Hi manocaaron, I think you may have misunderstood Tintara The grey gene if it is present, WILL mask ANY colour. But if it is NOT present, then obviously, it wont.
What Tintara said that Grey dominates every colour is true, if the horse carries the grey gene no matter what base colour it is the grey gene will dominate it.
While I dont want to try say that your book is wrong, coz its not really wrong, but if your horse is grey then it will go grey, not maybe.
If the Buckskin stallion doesn't carry the chestnut gene, i.e if one of his parents wasn't chestnut, cremello or pally or his parents didn't carry it recessively then you stand just as much chance of getting a buckskin from a chestnut mare because the stallions bay, brown or black will be dominant. If the stallion is a particular colour that you like and you put it over a chestnut your more likely to get that type of buckskin as it'll be the stallions colouring that will dominate the chestnut. For all that to work you need to know the genetic colouring of the buckskin and even then odds say only 50% of the time.
Ok Im admitting defeat
I shouldnt have let this thread go off topic anyway.
I obviously did misinterpret what Tintarra was getting at. Its getting in depth with the Gg and the G+ genes, Gg being the inherant (and dominent) grey gene and G+ being the gene that wont produce grey.
Id like to say we are both right....*
No offense taken Manocaaron.
I said - IF a horse carries grey it WILL go grey; if it doesn't it won't **) I've seen pedigrees of non-greys (mostly Welshies ) where every single ancestor for the first 3 or 4 generations behind it are grey yet all of a sudden a non-grey is produced. Which leads me to the other point I made about greys needing to be heterozygous in order to produce non-grey progeny - if they are homozygous for grey 100% of their offspring WILL be grey.
If a grey is used in a dilute breeding program and you want at least a 50% chance of a non-grey foal then it has to be heterozygous otherwise every single foal will go grey regardless of whether they are born dilute or not.
'Heterozygous' for grey means a horse only carries one copy of grey so potentially will only pass it on to 50% of their progeny whilst the other 50% potentially will be non-grey. 'Homozygous' for grey means a horse carries two copies of grey so will pass it on to all their offspring.
The same rule applies for every genetic trait that is carried homozygously - double cream dilutes will always produce cream dilute foals, chestnuts will always pass on a chestnut gene and so on.
WOW very interesting.
My big girl is Grey, out of a grey mare but by a black stallion. Does that make her heterozygous?
B & T - yes
Well written Tintara - I couldnt have explained it as well as you did *
B & T, yes your mare will be hetero, to be homo both parents must be grey and have passed on the grey gene (giving 2 copies).
As Tintara has said in her last post a homo grey will produce 100% grey foals just like a perlino/cremello will produce 100% dilute foals. Only dif is you can tell by looking if you have a double dilute but not a double grey!
Well that's good to know now, if I ever breed Jings atleast there is some chance her baby won't grey out.
What would happen if you bred a homozygous stallion (anything homo apart from grey) to a heterozygous grey. Is there still 50/50 chance of grey ?
yay I'm learning
If a stallion is homozygous for grey all his get will be grey.
Sorry I meant if he is homozygous for anything other than grey.
So if he is homozygous for buckskin and my girl is hetero grey, than will the foal be guaranteed bucky or is there still 50/50 chance of being grey?
Think of grey as a mask or factor not a colour.Grey can mask any colour.
So yes you have 50/50 chance of the foal turning grey.If the grey is homozygous then as Lena said ALL foals will turn grey.
Aw shucks - thank you Practise makes perfect ............. I'm forever explaining these types of things to owners so it just kinda rolls off the keyboard now*#).
Complicated question - homozygous buckskin ..........! Buckskins & palominos are heterozygous for cream (only carry one copy - if they carried 2 copies they'd be perlino or cremello respectively). Sooooooooo, they will produce 50 / 50 cream dilute to non cream dilute foals.
However, a buckskin may be homozygous for black (does not carry a copy of red) in which case all progeny with be black based and if they also inherit a copy of cream, will be buckskin.
They may also be homozygous for NO agouti - black or black buckskin, homozygous FOR agouti in which case all their progeny will be brown or bay and also buckskin if they inherit that copy of cream or heterozygous for agouti. Confused yet :confused: Agouti though will only affect whether the foals are black, brown or bay (with cream - black buckskin, brown buckskin or normal buckskin) so I wouldn't worry about this factor too much.
The only colours / crosses that will 100% guarantee a buckskin foal are:
A) a homozygous black* / homozygous cream dilute ie a smoky perlino - such an individual can only pass on black and cream both of which will dominate and modify all other colours (grey is a factor not a colour) OR
B) a homozygous black* to a homozygous chestnut / homozygous cream dilute ie a cremello OR
C) a homozygous black* to a perlino that may be either homo or hetero for black but obviously is homo for cream
*Homo black in the above contexts is only referring to horses that do not carry red; they may or may not carry agouti but that will only determine whether the resulting foals are black or shades of brown or bay as mentioned above.
***B&T nods her head pretending to understand*** *#)
Maybe I shouldn't have used Bucky as an example. I just would really prefer a non grey foal IF i breed her!
But then a good horse is never a bad colour!
Choose a non-grey stallion and you'll narrow the odds to 50% . If he is also a homozygous smoky perlino you'll definitely get a buckskin that may or may not go grey *
See, it's very simple really ..................... **) *#)