Horse Trainers / Breakers for re-training

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by Sublime, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. pin

    pin New Member

    Regardless of who (unless it is a person only using a halter), I have found in hundreds of horses I have dealt with 'straight from the breaker' all have one issue in common....

    They are unwilling to 'take' the bit - as soon as you touch the bit, they want to go behind it.... is this lightness? I dont think so."

    I realise you are generalising, but there is at least one horse in WA who defies this comment. My 5yo Cob (started by someone not yet mentioned here) is happy to take a nice contact on the bit without going behind it. Granted we mostly still plod about on the bridle paths (when we DO get out), but still. Now he was started a year ago, but only had about 2 weeks work after that, and sicne then has been ridden 3-4 times. so I think he is still pretty 'new'.

    Could NOT have asked for a better job to be done with him :)
  2. Lokenzo

    Lokenzo Gold Member

    Yup, my 2 are both happy to take the bit and don't want to suck back behind it. Kit is a little bit built that way with the Friesian bloodlines but Clint put a lot of work into him and even kept him a bit longer to get him really accepting the bit.

    Watch them work and go with who you think will work for you and your horse.

    As for the photos SMR posted, there is quite the story there and that breaker did something a few big names tried and couldn't succeed with for her. That is who you had booked to anyway and I don't think you will go wrong there.
  3. Remaani

    Remaani Guest

    You'll hear good & bad about EVERY trainer/breaker...

    I heard a corker today, about 1 person mentioned on here, 1 that a few praise. ;)
    Sad really to think their horse came back timid, tucking it's bum under with fear, not in your face friendly like it was before, left with no flymask on when asked too & allowing flies to set up camp in an injury just under the eye, to telling the owner the horse needs to be lunged for 2 hrs BEFORE riding it, to when the owners rock up to see the horse the "person" leaves them standing outside in poor weather whilst it's on the phone (apparantly!!) inside for 1.5hrs, then comes out & says ? got to go out"after the owners drove 3hrs!!!!!!
    Then saying the $$ for the starting will be refunded as owners def NOT happy - now it won't return any contact!
    Pffftt thank god my friends have proof of this.... but i know where not to send a horse! :mad:
  4. Jbear123

    Jbear123 Active Member

    Remaani you are so right you will always hear the Good and Bad about every trainer. Sadly some people don't look long enough for the right trainer for there horse and go by what other people tell them about a trainer, just because one person has had a good experience with a trainer doesnt mean the next 10 people who send there horses there will also have the same experience as each horse sent has a different personalitly and therefore different responses to that trainers ways.

    It sounds like the trainer your friend chose definatly was not the right trainer for her horse ( poor horse ) it sounds like your mates horse needed an adaptable trainer who was going to take that horses natural behaviour and responses into consideration when training it.

    Each horse is different and so is each trainer you, and therefore time is the key to finding the right trainer as at the end of the day you could find the cheapist trainer or the most well known WA trainer whom everyone talks about and I can garentee that even tho those factors need to be considered, the little trainer down the road could be the best trainer for your horse.

    I am glad that you shared your friends story as the good and the bad need to be heard sometimes to make the right decisions on your own merits, at the end of the day your mate on stockies doesnt know your horse better than you do.
  5. SMR

    SMR Well-known Member

    JBear123, I disagree. I think an excellent trainer/breaker should be able to adapt to different horse personalities and I wouldn't use one who can't adapt.
  6. Dusty_Ruby

    Dusty_Ruby Active Member

    Isn't that what Jbear123 said :confused:

    I have seen a trainer at work, just ticking off their list of 'standard procedure', even though the horse didn't need it/could do all that already. Trainer was so 'set in his ways'. Probably didn't do any harm, but didn't do much good either #(.
  7. Jbear123

    Jbear123 Active Member

    SMR maybe read what I write a little more in depth before making such quick judgement next time.

    As a trainer myself I am Adaptable and have never come up against a horse I couldn't work with and not gaining good results.

    All Trainers must think outside of the box, take Parelli, John Oleary, John Chatterton, Monty Roberts some of the most well known professional trainers for example, they are all great trainers in there own right but each of them simular in ways but at the same time so very different but all Adaptable within there own methods and all have methods that work and achieve great results.

    Being adaptable doesn't mean you change your methods totally to suit that horse it means you work out a way you can use that method with that horse - how hard or soft - maybe change it up a little from the way you would normally do it or knowing where and when in that particular horses training it will be appropriate to apply that training method or knowing is it appropriate at all for that horse.

    Dusty Ruby, Thankyou for reading my post :), to keep myself safe I always have assessment periods when educating or re-educating horses as at the end of the day my livelyhood is in staying safe on a horse so I do check horses mouthing before getting on them, saddle and lunge to see what education is already there on the ground - being a trainer whom likes to establish alot from the ground first then undersaddle this helps me make an appropriate assessment of where I need to go with the horses training to improve the horse for the owner. But a checklist is not what I use as such I play, I ride, I feel and watch as all of these allow me to setup a training schedule appropriate for that horse.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2012
  8. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    Sounds to me way too much politics its like you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    Can see why we don't touch outside horses any more :(
  9. SMR

    SMR Well-known Member

    Sorry JBear123, I responded to how I read your post. TBH, I have re-read your posts several times and am still a little confused in what you are saying as there are a few contradictory statements.

    I read your previous post as saying that not every trainer is suited to every horse, but then you claim to have had great success with every horse you have handled (which is great, and what I would expect from an excellent trainer).

    I don't think that horses have a problem with various methods used by different (good, adaptable) trainers; problems lie with owners' perceptions (everybody is entitled to their opinion on various methods). Perhaps that is what you are saying? Or are you referring to the non-adaptable trainers??

    As for your comment about the little trainer down the road might be as good as the highly recommended one, that might be the case, but I wouldn't take that risk without having seen the little trainer work with several different horse personalities. As I said earlier, you only get one chance to start a horse.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  10. CDA

    CDA Well-known Member

    PS I can only judge a horse trainer on the way their own horses behave...

    Jbear 's horses are always impeccably behaved at shows and events and so I would say she is one who understands how to train those type of horses quite well.
  11. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    Our horses are impeccably well behaved anywhere with us but hand them over for a moment and they can be shits of things, its not the horses its the humans that need training and re educating.
    It doesn't matter what method is used if the person and horse don't click well you may as well shoot the horse or the trainer rather than the person*#).
  12. Elanda

    Elanda Gold Member

    and why I do my own**)
  13. Jbear123

    Jbear123 Active Member

    CDA Thankyou for your lovely comments :) I totally agree with what you have said people need to find a trainer whom trains horses with methods they understand and have a good understanding of as this then reduces issues after starting horses to saddle or groundwork etc.

    As what Geejay said it isn't the horse that only needs to have the understanding of the methods and be comfortable with them but the person handling them needs to have Clarity and a solid Understanding of how to exicute those methods for the horse to understand and continue to progress in the right manner.

    Alot of the time it isnt always the horse that needs the training it is the owner or the horse and owner as a combination ( but not all horse owners are open to hearing this from a trainer ) I hear on a regular basis - I am sending my horse to you for you to fix him/her, my response is ok well what needs to be fixed and the owner says back to me well it doesnt do anything I ask. This is because the horse and the handler are not on the same wavelength due to lack of clarity within the training not being there on the owners part - this is why when the owner hands the horse to someone like the trainers or someone who understands the training and does not lack clarity within there training the horse responds well even perfectly to what they are asking ( it is as if the horse goes well thankgod you understand what you're asking me ) - this doesnt mean the trainer has not trained the horse well it means that the owner needs training also to have a better understanding of what the horse has been taught.

    When I have horses come to me with issues, even horses I am starting from a clean slate, I do work with the horse and then work with the owner so the owner has a solid understanding of there horses training before the horse heads home I get the owner to come and work with me and the horse and then if I see any holes in the owners understanding I can help them understand and see the positive responses that it has on the horses training, this reduces alot of issues on returning home or continuing on there horses training in the future. It is hard when the owner has a " I know what I am doing " complex :( - I do not work with them because I think they don't no anything or no less than me I work with them because I know it will achieve the best results with the training I have done with there horse as clarity in training something as simple as stopping your horse can be made easier with a solid understanding of your horses training and knowing what your horse understands the aids/ commands to be rather than taking the horse home and trying to work it all out for yourself.

    Not enough owners sit back and look at themselves and ask what can I do to better myself to better my horse? where can I improve to better this situation and help resolve my horses issues.

    SMR what I meant when I said " Not every trainer is suited to every horse" I meant becauseof all the different horse personalities as we all know some horses are not adaptable due to being hyper sensitive souls etc and training such as restrain training can make them more timid. It is important to find a trainer who can assess a horse behaviour and adapt this training accordingly.

    I was more speaking of unadaptable trainers as adaptable trainers will work to find a way to adjust there methods and use other methods they are also familar with to achieve positive results with horses they are given to work with.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  14. SMR

    SMR Well-known Member

    JBear123, I agree wrt adaptable trainers :) However, I don't think that restraint training is a method that should be dismissed for the extra sensitive souls. Restraint training needs to be done by someone very experienced and adaptable IMO (and as someone has already said, the preparation is the important part).

    My mare (the one in the photo I posted - am a little confused why clubignite had a photo of my horse sent to them :confused:) could be described as an extremely sensitive soul and yet she accepted restraint training as calmly as anything :) I think the trainer is the key to success, not just the method.

    I do agree that the owner needs to choose a trainer and method that they are open to as there is a lot of trust involved - trust that the trainer will do the best for your horse and trust that the owner will endeavor to continue building on the foundations set. I also think that owners need to do their homework - there are many ways to skin a cat.
  15. ClubIgnite

    ClubIgnite Well-known Member

    To explain to you in brief, I was sent it in email correspondence (who was explaining to a novice person, not myself), showing what riding in a crap saddle does to your position.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2012
  16. SMR

    SMR Well-known Member

    Well that's disappointing clubignite, although I am sure that the photo was not meant to be used against the trainer (after all, the reason you stated that it was sent to you was to demonstrate what a saddle can do, not to discredit the trainer :( ).

    I might also add that my mare has a lot of power and when she switches it off (which can be for just a stride), it's as though she has slammed on the brakes. That photo looks as though something has caught her attention and she has done exactly that (throwing the rider further forward).

    It would be good to see a variety of photos of other trainers, but even better is to watch them dealing with several horses in various situations, which is what people have been saying throughout this thread :)
  17. Jbear123

    Jbear123 Active Member

    SMR,I do find it hard to explain things on a forum in words I am a person who shows people through doing and speaking not writing so it is a little hard for me to pertray things correctly on here. What I meant when I said Sensitive souls, there are degrees of sensitive, your horse may have been fine with hobble training but other horses not so much obviously the trainer that worked with her was able to adapt and see where in her training it was appropriate to introduce this style of training and how to for her to be comfortable, this again comes back to adaptablility on a trainers part and a good understanding of the different types of mannerisims and personalities we are working with.
  18. Babe

    Babe Well-known Member

    My post here was removed? I only recommended a couple of Horse breakers as the OP asked? Is it becoz they were not paid advertisers??:confused:

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