Horse Trainers / Breakers for re-training

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by Sublime, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. domingo

    domingo Active Member

    how can you misrepresent a horse to a breaker? Surely they should be able to pick up what the horse can/needs within the first working hour.

    Same with the level of experience of the owner. After all, the breaker is a professional in that field (or should be).

    Sounds a bit like excuses to me...
  2. Lacey

    Lacey Well-known Member

    Domingo - its amazing the things you hear about after the horse is at your place. Eg. Horse has never been ridden before actually was a horse that had thrown the owner off multiple times!!and with owners they quite often don't know what they think they do.
  3. domingo

    domingo Active Member

    Does it really matter what has happened to the horse beforehand? I am sure a professional horse person figures the horse out him/herself and not according to what the owner says about the horse. Not every horse has had only the one owner anyway.
    And yes, owners know less, that's why they go to a professional in the first place.
  4. Lacey

    Lacey Well-known Member

    Well yes, if the horse is going to buck like a trooper or flip backwards when weigh is put on their back and it is known PRIOR to a breaker/trainer getting on I would like to bloody well know!!! It their livelihood and injuries that are preventable by a little bit of correct prior knowledge is nice. Yes a breaker does assess then horse in front of them and tbh it's a he'll of a lot easier to assess a horse that no one has been on before as you don't have any learned (under saddle) issues whereas a horse for retraining is a lot more unpredictable as their are more unexpected variables which you try to take into account as much as poss but you do miss some. It also not necessarily the owners knowing less it's them not knowing how to deal with and train on green horses and their timing of when to correct as compared to a broke horse and some owners wether knowingly or not misrepresent their skills and experience and their are some that can really talk the talk but can not walk the walk.

    Btw dad is a breaker/retrainer and when sht hits the fan it would be nice not to be told later well he did that to me a few times but to be really prepared for the possibility.

    Hope I have explain that ok
  5. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    Personally. I think breakers are a bit smarter than some have given them credit for in this thread.
    They normally have gone through a great deal of handling and thought processing training (seeing the different pressure the horse handles and how the horse responds to different pressure) before they get on.
    Only cowboys take skip all the important stuff.

    leg restraints are not for ME, but can be a very valuable tool, so i have no problems if others use them.
    Many roads to Rome !!!!!
  6. domingo

    domingo Active Member

    What happens if a trainer gets a horse they don't know anything about? I am sure every trainer has methods to find out whether the horse is going to buck before they get on. The people I have met so far make sure about those things before they get on any horse.

    Regarding the owner not knowing how to deal with green horses etc. - that's what I mean by the owner knowing less.

    Anyway, I am not interested to go into a huge debate about this, especially not when it gets to the swear word stage.
  7. kiraSpark

    kiraSpark Gold Member

    When OH gets a horse he knows nothing about, he starts it from scratch - as if it was unbroken. :))
    We also re-mouth and re-break-in (if there is such a word!) any OTTB's we get as well - they go back to square one as if they were unbroken. Which, most of the time, isnt far off! :p
  8. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    ditto........thats exactly what I be totally hoenst I would never just hop on a horse I hadnt either seen work first or until after I had had him a day or so and worked with him on the ground first ie can tell an awful lot about what you might be in for (or not) before you even get on by just going back to basicis and seeing what training is missing and what isnt
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  9. Jbear123

    Jbear123 Active Member

    I know that Our business has not been mentioned in this thread but I do not like how people generalise trainers here in WA into one catagory and one group we are all so very different people will only see that and get a proper judgement of a trainer if they go and meet them for themselves as everyone has different opionions so this thread has proved on so many different topics, and I agree with others that say there is the right trainer out there for you and your horse you just have to not be in a rush to fined them.

    I know that here at BC Horse Training, we have assessment periods for each horse that arrives here what ever the training may be we usually have an idea of what is achieveable with that horse within a few training sessions sometimes even the first training session it really depends on the horse you are working with as to weither you get a good judgement on the horse straight away.

    We must all remember that horses are individuals like us and some of us are closed off and dont tell anyone anything unless they say or do something we dont like, when others will react from the start as some are more sensitive expressive natured when others are more hardy dominant or hardy passive.
  10. sil

    sil Gold Member

    Most people in my experience say things like that when they've never had to get down to the tin tacks of the job and get it done.

    Please be assured, there are plenty more of us who understand and appreciate that educating a horse isn't always best to be touchy feely.
  11. sil

    sil Gold Member

    and I am sure plenty who, like me, are grateful for people like you :)
  12. domingo

    domingo Active Member

    Unfortunately, it's not only the customers/people who might gossip negatively. Some trainers are prone to talk in a negative way about their fellow professionals (I remember a rather unfriendly 'blog' on a trainer's website talked about in this regard).

    Most of us have always said that you have to go and meet/observe the trainer to learn about methods and their benefits.

    But 'word of mouth' will always happen, especially in small town WA.
  13. Murray

    Murray Well-known Member Staff Member

    anyone who is a horse trainer/breaker/educator please don't post in this thread unless you are a paid advertiser.

    you certainly wouldn't provide your services for free so please don't expect free advertising here!

  14. Paint8

    Paint8 Well-known Member

    Well I have been lucky enough to find a Trainer who has my boy up at his place full-time :). Also lucky that he is very reasonably priced!!

    I think it is really important to give young horses the same training/handling for as long as you can, chop and change too many times and you quite often end up with a very confused horse.

    My Trainer has a mixture if methods that work with my boy. He trains all sorts of horses and is quite often given horses that people can't handle anymore.

    I would like to get him out and about competing in dressage as a 4yo so when he is ready we will change trainers to someone like Anna who specialises in that field.

    Over the next few months he will be mouthed and ponied out on rides :)

    You need to find someone that works well with you and your horse, it is hard to know who to send your horse to. I live over east so I had to rely on sy for suggestions.

    Good luck hope you find someone :).
  15. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    I love the way Tales of the Trails Erwin, and ***** are with the horses they work on. I enjoy watching them both communicate with the horse.....even while talking to a person the subliminal conversation carries on :D

    This is not to say I disrespect any other Trainer/Breaker methods - but I have seen these two with my own eyes (amongst many others), and these two are absolute stars for me. I watch the hands. The hands are like a fine musician, the wrists and fingers working all the time, the pressure light and fluid.

    I also think some Owners need to revisit the definition of the word, and also the Word "breaker". If you are the Owner - you Own everything about the horse. You know it best - and if you're seeking a professional, it's because you acknowledge the horse has an issue that you, yourself, can't "fix". Breakers do not go out seeking horses with problems - why the heck would they ';' So as an Owner, it is up to you to say, "My horse has XYZ problem" and you know this because it has exhibited ABC behaviours that you acknowledge. You don't, as an owner, take your horse to your chosen Breaker and say, "This is my horse and can you tell me what is not right with it". So for those saying Breakers should be able to know without Owner input - *#)

    Owners also need to be definitive in their requests of a Breaker. I've booked one into one of the aforementioned Trainers this week. I have said I want XYZ training done to it - and to me XYZ training is inclusive of it being returned to me doing XYZ whenever I ask it to. The Trainer agreed that that goes without saying - but I wanted to make sure we are exactly on the same wavelength. then, as the Owner, I know I am getting what I asked for, not leaving the Trainer to guess what uses I might want for XYZ.

    At the "Breaking" level....or even to teach a horse to tie solid, I don't think it matters what genre the Breaker himself rides in. It's the refinement that comes later on where genres might come into play with a horse's further education. This is the point of someone like Dion IMO - whom I also have very much respect for **)
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2012
  16. BugEye

    BugEye Active Member

    Wattle, I agree totally. I think too many people blur the lines between breaking(starting) and training. 2 very different scenarios but also there is a link between them.
  17. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    Wattle.....for ground work training for sure it dosnt matter really who one chooses ( relatively speaking ) however for 'breaking in and ridding away" ie starting a young horse to saddle and the first few months there after etc IMO one should be looking for a trainer who actually has some knowledge and depth of understanding about the chosen discipline you are likely to be doing with your horse later on.

    Example........its very confusing for a young horse to be started say (and this is just an example) by a western style trainer and then (say) come to me for 'training' for Horse Trials or dressage/showing.
    It usually results in me having to go back and undo some of what the horse has been taught and fill in gaps that perhaps havent been taught to the horse aswell for him to be able to contiune training for this sort of competition........
    This all means extra time (possibly $$) and some horses find it really hard to re adjust.
    If someone rang me and asked me if I can start a horse with cutting and western pleasure inmind (not even sure if these two go together but anyway!!LOL) Id say sorry I dont know the first thing about either things so probably best to ring someone who does.

    You wouldnt go and have Boxing lessons if you wanted to learn to Tap Dance so to me why would you send a horse to a 'different style of trainer' if you eventually want to persue a different style of discipline?? has never made much sence to me......

    Training any horse is such a long road to follow with so many complex issues that one will most probably come up against why make it complicated at the beginning??......';'
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  18. BugEye

    BugEye Active Member

    There lies the problem, blurring the lines. A horse that has just been started undersaddle, is not in a position to undergo "training for a specific discipline" for at least a few months. The first month or so is about getting the horse going forward and accepting the rider. You can teach the basics - trot, canter, stop, backup. Towards the later stages of the initial period you can do circles and ask for correct leads and hopefully they will associate going left as needing to be on the nearside lead and vice versa. Can teach to move away from leg pressure but basically you cant ask for too much more too early without blowing their minds. Plenty of wet blankets are needed initially.

    the basics are the same for every discipline. They all need to yield to leg pressure, circle nicely and evenly. Be light to ride, not race into lead changes and most of all be balanced. Some are more balanced as youngsters than others but they all need miles on the clock first to establish a good frame. Then the specific training can be implemented - head carriage, neck reining, side passes, simple changes moving up to flying changes,
  19. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    Anna, I think I understand your thinking :)

    It's not the plan I have for my own horse which I hope to concentrate on dressage with in about 10 years time :). I bred him for myself and I'll start him at 3 on lots of walking trail rides (6months work, 6months holidaying). At 4 he will start low level dressage and at 5 he will be doing pony club run eventing. But my vision for him is dressage after 10 years (I will be 50 *#)). Realistically I am never going to any great level of dressage...I have no aspirations of the Olympics or Nationals or even competitive Dressage. It's just the sport I wish to be doing at 50. My baby will be backed by (again) one of the aforementioned trainers and then the rest of his work will be by me....with *hopefully* regular lessons with a dressage Instructor up the road :D

    My Welsh B is coming into training this week 2yrs 4months. Her career goal is official hack. She is starting his week in harness. I don't believe she needs to start her career with a hacking trainer....I want her to have a fabulous mouth - and I think this starts with adults educating her mouth - not children. So harness for her as she is only 12hh :)
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  20. Paint8

    Paint8 Well-known Member

    From my perspective I would like my horse to happily be ridden alone and in company on and off a property, over river crossings, through ditches, walk over small branches, walk, trott, canter, halt when asked before sending it to a specialised trainer.

    I am very happy with my current trainer but he does not specialise in dressage and I could not afford to send him away to have all of the work the current trainer is doing somewhere else.

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