Horse Colour.. Breeding for??

Discussion in 'Breeding Horses' started by FDPH, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. Trojane

    Trojane Well-known Member

    If you mean me - I didn't say a coloured horse "must" be poorer quality.
    It was the observation humans are generally drawn to the colour first, before the confirmation.
     
  2. Siren

    Siren Well-known Member

    But then there are those that specifically go for the non stand out colour, in order to gain some credit, regardless of quality. For example in Yandi's post, she came across a buckskin stallion, but DIDNT want him because of his colour. There are people out there at instantly put coloured horses and their owners/riders in the lesser quality basket.

    I cant see where merry legs posted that the coloured horses that come her way are poorer quality, than the 'plain' brown ones. There was just more interest in them for the pure fact of colour. Which is certainly wrong, but did not reflect the quality of the coloured vs plain horses.

    Most people that have posted on here have noted that colour is certainly not priority in there choice of horse (even to the point of avoiding them), but if they are in fact given the choice, they will go for coloured. And risk being judged purely on that choice!
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  3. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Actually this might be true in part.......because there have been people who have bred from, or to, coloured horses of poorer quality BECAUSE they were coloured and they themselves wanted a coloured foal. So there are probably a great deal of poorly conformed and poorly minded horses out there who are from those coloured parents.

    It stands to reason if colour is a primary factor in some people's breeding aims and actions, that other things have been over-looked in that quest.

    What happens then is that the 'faults' that mattered little to one breeder, matter greatly to another and that might constrain an individual horse in terms of market appeal?

    There are some great coloured horse breeders out there who want quality horses WITH colour..........there are others out there who want ANY horse with colour.....and they will breed with them regardless.
     
  4. Siren

    Siren Well-known Member

    This is true, but there are inferior breeders within any breed or discipline. Coloured breeders/riders seem to be the only ones singled out on a regular basis, mainly within english riding disciplines.
     
  5. Trojane

    Trojane Well-known Member

    Well said EVP.

    Once we were playing with probability in class. The lecturer used this example:
    What are your chances of getting a tall, shapely, beautiful blond with brains - given the probability of each was 1 in 10?

    If no complicating factors this would be 1/10 X 1/10 X 1/10 X 1/10 X 1/10 = .00001 or 1 in a 100,000.
    Say you settle for a common brunette (7/10 of population) your chances improve by a factor of 7.

    This is way too simple, but what I'm saying is 'perfect' confirmation is even more elusive in a rarer colour.
     
  6. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    EXACTLY.
    Some people feel that the "good horse" trade-off is justified because of the option of colour. What they fail to realise is that a mediocre foal or horse they buy today, could very well be the mediocre coloured mare or stallion of tomorrow.
    Some will care, and some will not. And in the process many who simply don't know will be carried away on the eye appeal only of an exotic colour.

    Coloured horses will always get consessions because of their colour......they will be bred with because of their colour regardless of type, sold more readily over better quality horses, saved from sales/knackery more often, and generally more coveted in the market place regardless of breed.

    Just like the prettier girl will get the job.....:)*
     
  7. belambi

    belambi Active Member

    Its interesting isnt it.. The splashed /sabino tb colt that we have , we have just put on the market, and the interest is extraordinary, from all over the world.. I would imagine its because of his colour!.. and it sort of goes in phases..Apache Cat, and the odd white horse certainly gets a lot of attention from the media, and the "punters" like a horse they can recognise from the sideline!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Belambi your colt is a true example of breeders doing it right INSPITE of the colour.....lolol Not BECAUSE of it!

    He is magnificient. :))
     
  9. Siren

    Siren Well-known Member



    Thats exactly true, hence the reason so many put colour into consideration when breeding or purchasing a horse.

    I just think its unfair to automatically judge these people, by saying that they must have turned a blind eye to other faults to compensate for colour.
    Yes, there are people out there that do just that, but there are more people that will breed a horse just because its a certain breed, or because it has ovaries or the full house of boys bits. Its an unfair stereotype.

    What breeding is your colt belambi?
    And your right with Apache Cat generating alot of attention, purely because of his colour. But he's also won nearly $4.6 mil. What a superstar **)

    I think colour can just be considered an X factor. All advertisers will agree that sex sells... so does colour. But if the product is poor, then it will all catch up with them soon enough.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  10. belambi

    belambi Active Member

  11. Siren

    Siren Well-known Member

    cheers :)) Good name too!
     
  12. Siren

    Siren Well-known Member

    what are your plans for him?
     
  13. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    I was speaking to a friend yesterday who has a big ASH stud and she was going to breed a mare to the sire of the pally filly but she is worried she will get a pally!!!!! in certain circles colour is real taboo even if the said horse ticks every imaginable box, when my colt came out with so much colour i was a little dissapointed as i know the serious competitors will not breed to him even if he does everything right!! so it seems there is predjudice everywhere!!
     
  14. fuddles

    fuddles Well-known Member

    l thought TBs were bred for speed not conformation and that TBs certainly feature more in the knackers yards due to oversupply of slow TBs

    and how can you tell he is well conformed from a galloping photo.
     
  15. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    That is a great question!

    Some horses who have speed have less than perfect conformation. Some with perfect conformation are less than fast. Conformation is not the only trait needed for a good race horse.......if that were the case there would be alot more champion horses!!

    A galloping horse can show lots of things.....muscle definition and length of stride just 2 examples.:)*
     
  16. Siren

    Siren Well-known Member

    Isnt it ridiculous! You'd think your friend who seems to obviously already has a positive reputation s worried about something so trivial.

    Fuddles, I was kinda thinknig the same thing, but I would think EVP has better experience in judging conformation than I do, Id certainly need all the appropriate photos to make a decsion. EVP though, may not, through knowledge and experience.

    This horse, judging by his pedigree, wasnt bred for running. But belambi has a website which states that they breed coloured performance horses, so he could be bred for another purpose.
    Thoroughbreds have many many other uses than racing, and to say that a TB racehorse isnt bred for conformation completely discredits your post, beyond belief!!!! The knowledge of conformation within bloodstock agents is so far advanced than many other disciplines. Of course there are bad ones, probbably seems like there are more too, but thats only because there are that many more tb's out there. Go back to the probability post.
     
  17. Fuddles,:)
    there can't be speed without a conformation, it is like asking a snale to run barrels!*#) Born to crawl can't fly, mate!;)
    Belambi's colt is VERY NICE conformation wise.**)
    lena
     
  18. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Thanks Siren, I typed so late I didn't think I got my point across....ahahahahah!
    I did know about Bels performance horses so was handing over my "stunning" comment because of this.......and looking at that horses' stride with that low set head and flattening out (in racing terms) he looked very much TB and very athletic.
    As far as conformation goes in "running TB's" I will go further about conformation........at yearling sales ALL horses are xrayed prior to sale, I also beleive some serious buyers do heart scores?

    Nothing can be hidden with xray, so if their was a conformation anomoly I'm sure it would be picked up?

    Most of the TB's that hit the normal people sale rings or the dogger yards have problems......some might be as a result of less than perfect conformation exaserbated by training/racing, or as a result of training regime unsuited to an individual by idiot trainers, or simply because their genes failed to give distance or speed.

    I still think Belambi's horse is stunning! :)*
     
  19. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    Yes it is but on the otherside of the coin if you spend 35yrs breeding solid coloured horses then getting colour is probably not something that is in that persons "psyche'... I wish I could explain what I'm trying to say better, maybe 'old habits die hard"..."you can't teach an old dog new tricks"... humans hate change! The ASH is known for its solid colours and many believe that colours are not as sturdy or tough, a misconception but thats how it works. The QH infusion has bought the majority of colours with it roans, buckskin etc and the appys and paints got in through classification, my overo mare was classifieds and I tried really hard to keep her colour out of her progeny, I succeeded pretty well up untill the last one!
     
  20. Siren

    Siren Well-known Member

    its so true, I dont know how many times the bad luck associated to fours white socks comes up.
    And the few people that do breed purely for colour and nothing else, certainly dont help the cause.
    Your friend has the experience, and must have a valid reason for wanting to bred the two horses, but then avoiding it just because they are worried about being put in the same category as the half wits out there. Its people like your friend that can help the coloured world gain a better reputation.
     

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