Getting rid of problem horses

Discussion in 'Problem Horses' started by Lightning Jack, Oct 2, 2008.

  1. A Discussion with an american freind recently raised an issue that has got me thinking. In America the "killer" market for horses has just shut down. This has inturn caused an influx of low quality horses onto the ridden/breeding market. This has gone on to create a further two problems one being that there are now more people with problem horses and the second is that the quality horses are being devalued.

    My thought was that if the practice of "dogging" horses was more readily accepted in Australia would we inturn end up with less problem horses and a better return for our quality horses instead of recycling or "saving" these problem horse.
  2. hutchi

    hutchi Well-known Member

    Contraversial issue LJ! I don't know enough about it to have an opinion... I'll just watch :}
  3. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    LJ as a person who has bothed saved a horse or two and dogged a horse or 2 I know exactly where you are coming from, and IMO NO horse is worth a human life.

    I have dogged a horse that I paid good money for to ensure that it was never sold on again as it was dangerous, I have advised many friends to do the same with their problem horses, one friend, 2 years later and many dollars lighter for her efforts still could not bring herself to send her horse to the knackers.

    Her husband finially shot the horse after a very nasty incident that has scared the entire family for life.

    There are far to many bleeding hearts that will have you believe that there are no such thing as problem horses only problem people, etc, true to some extent, but I have met horses born evil, anyone that has spent some time on a Tbred stud will agree with me there lol.

    Far to many horses are given a 2nd chance when they didnt even deserve the first chance.

    Far to many people breed horses for no purpose or reason other than I have a mare so why not.

    There are more horses than there are competant riders and horse handlers, so sooner or later the horse looses out.

    The horse industry is one big conveyer belt of meat for the pet food market, some people are honest about this, others just dont want to know.

    The reality is, very very few horses die of old age in lush green pastures loved and respected from birth to passing.

    These days, I would sadly dog one in 10 horses that I see, so many people persist with problem horses because of nothing more than shear guilt, and the amount of people who will lie to sell a horse on knowing full well it has serious problems rather than dog it are staggering.

    I know that my views will polarize many people, but I would rather see a horse dogged than a human hurt.

    There are exceptions to every story, and there are 100 stories about the great horse that was saved from pet meat and now is a famous what ever, but there are far more stories of horse that hurts itself, or someone else because its a nutter and cant be controlled etc.

    My Grandfather was a well respected horse breaker, and he said until the day he died, "it costs the same to feed a good horse as it does a bad horse, far better to keep a good horse"
  4. Trojane

    Trojane Well-known Member

    But LJ - if we eliminated problem horses what about the support industry? Who would keep the remedial calming potions pastlife regressional analysists training DVDs afloat?

    And Sharaway - I agree with you too.
  5. Shmoo

    Shmoo Well-known Member

    Snap Sharaway! No point in me repeating it!
    In Perth we are lucky to have an abattoir that provides a great service.
    WE CAN'T SAVE THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The horses here are lucky enough not to be loaded into traumatising, unsuitable transporters and driven to Canada or Mexico to be knocked on the head.
    That was the Biggest mistake the Yanks made.
    They are still being put down but their last moments are prolonged in much less then comfortable conditions.

    I feel though that in Aus both to "dog" or Euth a horse is generally excepted a bit better then in the states. From what I read on the Forums it is not a taboo subject that is skirted around by the death phobic Ferrel bunny huggers. :p

    It would be an ideal world if everyone was a responsible horse owner/breeder that actually had horse handling skills but it isn't, so we have to be realistic and deal.

    There I shall now sit down to a Milo and Tim Tams, anyone want one?
  6. tariquepark

    tariquepark Well-known Member

    Have to agree with Shmoo and Sharaway can not add anything else
  7. mature aged rider

    mature aged rider New Member

    I agree that some horses need to be put to sleep. Some years ago I bought a horse sight unseen as I was working up North and unable to get down to see it. The seller (from the Daranup area) told me that the horse was sound she had had it vet checked etc etc.

    I got the horse put on a truck and it came 2000kms up the coast. It was very very lame when it arrived, had a vet look at and it had an old fractured pelvis. That poor horse had travelled all that distance in pain because someone did not have the guts to do the right thing by it and have it euthinased.

    Needless to say it was euthinased immediately with much tears and sadness on myself and my families part. The whole thing cost me over $8000. It put me off having another horse up until now.
  8. Webby

    Webby Well-known Member

    Another one in agreeance here.

    At least you know the horse isn't going to harm anyone, nor anyone harm the horse as often it these horses that are left, leading miserable lives.
  9. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    Don't need to say anything you said it all Sharaway**) and far better than I would.

  10. I have not yet met what I would call an evil horse. I've met horses outright nasty because some ass has spent the last few years hurting them and I've met horses more than willing to give tit-for-tat to their tormentors but I've not yet met one I would consider too dangerous to live.

    If I DID meet one that was outright savage, either due to some physical or nuerological problem (sp?) I would NOT hestitate to have it PTS.

    I've had to call on Southdale a couple of times to alleviate suffering because I'd rather a professional put a bullet in their head rather than the contraversial green dream method and I have no problem, no problem AT ALL with their professionalism, consideration for the humane treatment and destruction of the horse and would not hesitate to recommend their services for those horses that have no way out of whatever torment they suffer.
  11. Toy

    Toy Active Member

    Thumbs up Sharaway. Thats spot on. I would have taken in any horse that was deemed no good two years ago. Now after seeing what horses are dogged and why I am no longer willing to take just any horse. I am a firm believer that all colts should be gelded unless they are in a stud or at least worthy to breed to. Unfortunently there is no way to stop people breeding with bad mares. I still feel for the horse thats deemed no good mainly because most of the time its the handlers that have done the damage.
  12. Mayasmum

    Mayasmum Well-known Member

    Whilst I agree with what's being said, I thought I'd just add my own feelings here...and I AM an eternal optomist, so bear with me!!

    I can think of 3 broad categories of horses getting 'dogged':
    1. the physically damaged - lame and in pain and beyond recovery. I'll group the very old age horses in here too.
    2. psychologically damaged - deeply mentally damaged by people. Great source of contention as to whether they can be "fixed".
    3. the down on its luck horse! The one that is not wanted or able to be kept by its owner and is not highly saleable, maybe untrained or aged or ugly but not physically or psychologically beyond redemption.

    I don't necessarily think that ALL horses that end up at the doggers are there because its the best thing for them. Therefore I don't think making it more "socially acceptable" to send a horse there is really approprite. I think it SHOULD be controversial so that it is the LAST option for a horse.
  13. Rem

    Rem Well-known Member

    Let's not confuse a horse being humanely PTS with a horse being 'dogged'. The two are very different! You will never see me 'dog' a horse, just because the journey to the abattoir is shorter here than in the US, doesn't make it any less traumatic!

    I will however have a horse humanely PTS if the situation calls for it and have done so in the past.

    I'm not going to go into the term 'problem horses' except to say that I don't believe there are any until they come into contact with people.
  14. In view of Rem's thread, I have had Southdale come to my property and stood by the horse whilst it was humanely pts and then they have taken the body away for me, I haven't ever nor would send a horse to them alive unless I couldn't safely hold it to be PTS by them. But that is a personal preference.
  15. jodles

    jodles Well-known Member

    I agree with Sharaway but am in the camp with Ren and Merrylegs, I would never send a horse to the doggers. I cant stand seeing the dogger trucks on the road and it haunts me. Horse can sense nervousness,intent so I will never put a horse through the doggers JMO.
  16. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    We humans romanticise horses far to much, we used to eat them ourselves before we worked out that you can ride them or pull a plough, and many cultures still eat horse.

    There is fundamentally no difference in sending a goat, cow, sheep or horse to the meatworks, pigs are considered more intelligent than some humans, yet we eat them, send them of in trucks for slaughter.

    I do not have a single problem with seeing a horse recycled as food for another animal, this is life, this is reality, how is it any different to truck 10 horses to the abattoirs versus 10 cattle?

    If next week I announced that I was going to farm horses for human consumption and sell the meat back to Europe, could you imagine the line up of bunny huggers at my front door?

    There are people who will not eat any meet full stop because they don’t agree with one life dieing to feed another, well tell that to the carnivores!

    In Oz, we don’t slaughter horses like they do in Mexico or some of the horrific methods you see on the net, we do slaughter our livestock in the most humane possible way.

    No death is perfectly clean and painless unless you pass away in your sleep.

    We think the Asians are bizarre because if it moves they pretty much will eat it, here in Oz we BBQ Skippy and eat Emu and other cultures think we are bizarre for that.

    Take the family dog, go camping, get lost, run out of food and water, how long before Rover starts looking like dinner, and if you perish, how long before Rover noms on you?

    I love my horses, I personally would never want to eat one, however when it comes to their eventual death, I personally feel more comforted to know that they have served another purpose in their death other than polluting the ground water or adding to land fill.

    However I do fully understand the overwhelming grief of losing a most loved family member and how at that time, any decision is an impossible one to make, threads like these help people to see that they do have options, and that even though some people will judge you harshly for calling Southdale, other people will fully support the decision.

    You can not please everyone in this life. You can only do what you feel is right at the time.
  17. Nannoo

    Nannoo Well-known Member

    Are you a politician Sharaway???
  18. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    No Mate, I just live in the real world, not on some other planet where the world is perfect and the pixies bring you flowers!
  19. kathyve

    kathyve Active Member

    I totally agree with Sharaway and the opinions expressed. But the thing I object to is the racing industry (not all so do not shoot me down before I start).
    I have just recently acquired a lovely TB that did a tendon (minor), a week later it was requested if I would be able to cater for another TB that did the same thing. Upon my refusal the guilt treatment was utilised in that they stated that I take him and/or if they could not find a good home for him he would have to go to the Doggers. The moral is these lovely horses have gained many a pretty penny, just because they do not fit the bill anymore the simple thing is Dog them (not all trainers/owners are like that). Are these animals just a source of income!

    My TB will be great upon re-education and some R&D - not one of these animals with "Kill the Human" attitude. If I did not take him where would he be now?
    Just food for thought
  20. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Kath, he would be on the truck, thats where, you can not save them all, and the sad truth is, as I have said before, the Tbred and Sbred industry is a conveyor belt for the pet meat industry.

    Fact of life.

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