FINE! I will make our own Stbred x thread then!

Discussion in 'Breeding Horses' started by Heifer, Feb 15, 2010.

?
  1. Yes

    43 vote(s)
    35.0%
  2. No

    59 vote(s)
    48.0%
  3. Maybe

    21 vote(s)
    17.1%
  1. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    The problem is when they are not only a step down but an entire flight of stairs and the people that bred it dont have the nerve to cull it.

    So it gets sold, and ruins the rep for the good ones that are out there.
     
  2. PPH

    PPH Guest

    But does'nt this happen with any breed not just the stbds?



    True Stbd fans may be interested in a story in the feb/march edition of Australin Performance Horse, titled "A Second Chance at Raising The Standards.

    Totaly agree with one paragraph.......

    "I think they are a misunderstood breed and that there is a stigma around them that is completley untrue. They are not ugly and untrainable and only suited to track work as some people believe but versatile and consistant, easy to train with a laid back nature."

    IMO, I think the fact that you can now see the stbd used as a ponyclub mount, out trail riding, eventing, in the dressage arena or pleasure harness driving to name a few, added to the fact that shows now include stbd classes as part of their programme and that the Standardbred has their own pleasure and perfomance associations and run their own shows tells it's own story and speaks more truly of their true worth.


    Honestly though, with some of the so called "opinions" aired in these "debates", can you really wonder why some ppl are staying so quiet?
    Maybe they bit their tongues a bit too hard. :p;):D

    Personaly i think it's been done to death and it's going round in circles.
     
  3. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    You will rarely find 2 champions breeding a donkey.......If the cross doesn't excell its rarely the horses fault.....and more the fault of the breeder who didn't know what they were doing.....lolol You cannot cross any old 'champion' with any old 'champion'........its all in the recipe mix.

    Bugger me if I can work out how anyone can breed from a sire or dam with no recorded bloodlines.......because that is like entering a treasure hunt with no map!
     
  4. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    Wattle, breeding is breeding, it matters not what breed, what mammal, it just depends what calibre of progeny you wish to breed!! Any doodle can breed a "nice animal or human" but not anyone can breed a superior individual. I don't see too many Elle McPhersons running about or Phar Laps **)

    Perhaps look just a wee bit harder, mind you there is pages to look through!!!

    Felt free :))

    smash I love that Standy/Andy [/QUOTE]
     
  5. Lauren

    Lauren Gold Member

    Wow..


    Umm.. interesting thread? *i think? bahahaha*


    :|
     
  6. PPH

    PPH Guest

    And something said in the appaloosa thread that I agree with, "Just as long as they are a nice horse and you are enjoying them.......thats what its all about owning riding horses .....it doesn't matter what they are so long as they suit what you are wanting from them."

    Most don't give a rats bottom if their horse is the next Pharlap or not, especially if they don't want to go fast ;). Thats the thing with horses, to some, it's not always about being the cream of the crop and being in the winners circle, you can get enjoyment from them in other ways.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2010
  7. Trojane

    Trojane Well-known Member

    I used to ride a pig and goats when I was little, and an elephant when I was taller. I enjoyed it.
    But I sure am glad there are fine horse breeders, raising enjoyment to another level.
     
  8. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    if enjoyment is what you want, what is wrong with the purebred stbred? They are free! I know i got alot of enjoyment from mine, without having to contribute to the flooded market :)
     
  9. Pepsea

    Pepsea Gold Member

    i doubt this debate will stop people from breeding them.
    people will disaprove of a lot of other breedings/crosses as well.
    just because some people agree or disagree doesent make their opinon right!!
     
  10. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    My replies have nothing to do with breed "hate".........I adore the STB!!!

    And your article above I agree with........though the article has nothing to do with cross breeding them.

    The article is all about extolling the virtues of rescued off the track pacers and giving them another life........not BREEDING them.

    Come on........all horses are nice. And going by the reasons that some people use to cross breed (sweet natured, looks nice, had her for 15 years ect ect ect ect) one wonders whether some people have the knowledge or experience to really judge NICE horse. As for "riding horses"........if people had more knowledge they would surely know and understand that there are better "riding" horses (anatomically speaking) than a STB.
    Yep the lack of real knowledge and understanding is always replaced by ease of accessibility and a stallion owners apathy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  11. Freestyle

    Freestyle Well-known Member

    Heifer, can I ask you a hypothetical question?

    If Buckley had been a mare, and didn't have the leg issues, would you have considered breeding from him (or her in this case hehehe)?

    The thing is, that when you are an owner you dont always think with your head. A lot of the time it's an emotional thing. I can see how people want to breed from their beloved mare as a way of holding on to them for another generation. I'm not sure if I would be able retire a successful and much loved mare (not necessarily a stb), without trying for one baby - just to see what she throws.

    My parents have recently done just this. A stb mare from a very successful racing line (she was the only filly from the mare) who had a tonne of ability, but no legs to carry her around, was put in foal this season - in the hope that she can throw a successful racehorse and carry the line on.
     
  12. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Yep........."riding horses"........everyone knows that a STB is not an easy "riding horse"....there are much better breeds suited to weight carrying (hense why I stated "RIDING HORSE")
    The risk involved in cross breeding a STB is producing another horse with a 'difficult' gait........this isn't "nice riding horse".........so why bother doing it. Work with something that isn't going to give you negatives before you even start!!
     
  13. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Bec from a breeders perspective you cannot know with certainty that a race horse who retires didn't get their career ending injuries from things like lack of race maintenance, bad training techniques, incorrect raising as a baby, hard track surfaces...the list is long. So breeding from a mare like that is no big deal....its done all the time. Race horses are even bred from un-raced mares! Its a fact that whats in those genes is in those genes!
    And with a good breeding program lots of unraced mares can produce top winning babies. One such mare I know, a Broodmare of the Year a few times was a mare called Weona Jewel. Hope your mare gives you a winner!!
     
  14. Freestyle

    Freestyle Well-known Member

    I know EVP, (Summer Honey, Soky's Number etc are great examples!) but why cant this careful breeding be applied to other areas of the performance/pleasure horse world with similar success?
     
  15. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    HELL NO!!!!! Gawd we dont need that bigheaded small necked flat cantered animal multiplying!!! There are millions of them already lol.
    And yet he has proved himself performance-wise more than any other stbred in his feild...
    But most definately no.
     
  16. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    because (in this case) it is taking genes designed for harness racing and trying to get a riding horse out of it. It would be like me taking clydie and putting it to a TB in the hope it will produce a good race horse.
     
  17. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Heheheheheh, but don't forget it might turn out a real purdy foal who will be loved and looked after and kept forever and ever and ever....and bred just for me until I go to the retirement villiage.....lololol

    Bec it can be applied to lots of areas of the performance arena. By using genetics that don't include ones not suited to the discipline.....simply put a standardbred crossing is going to in all probability, give a gait. It might not give it in 100% of cases......but the probability of GETTING it is higher than not getting it.....therefore a realistic breeder is going to expect it and not want to duplicate it for the arena they are breeding for. There are far too many "iffy" bred horses out there already.
     
  18. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    EVP i usually see parts of the gait rather than what could be described as 'pacing' or anything. This is why they tend to 4-beat the canter or walk laterally. YES other breeds can have these problems too, but the probability/risk is lower, if neither of the parents or grandparents etc are gaited or display echos of gaits if you like.
     
  19. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Very eloquently put.....not being a "rider" of any merit you explained it much better! :))
     
  20. fitgirl

    fitgirl Active Member

    first of all the following post is just my personal opinion and I admit I am not as educated as most when it comes to breeding horses as I dont breed....

    My first horse was a stb and I loved him, he had a beautiful trott and lovely smooth canter.....after he paced 100metres before breaking into a canter. lol He was an ex-harness racer so yes he paced alot but I didnt care He has a gorgeous face and kind eye, beautiful mahogony bay, little pencil neck and boof head but I loved him.
    Personally I don't think that ANY breed of horse should be crossbred...yeah sure every breed was originally crossed with something so that individual breeds could be developed but its taken hundreds if year to produce the breeds that are around today.
    I will use Arabians as an example...go to an arabian show in SA and I could count on one hand the amount of purebred arabians in the ring....on the other hand the derivative ring is usually more than double.... and what I find really really annoying and frustrating is that even if a horse is only 1/8th Arab they can still be registered as a part bred?? WTF? In my opinion only and 50/50 cross should be registerable as a derivitive...how on earth can they justify registering these crosses that have so little arabian blood....
    I worry that all this cross breeding going on what happens to the true purebloods over time?
    Also why keeping breeeding crossbreed stb's when there are soooo many that are put down every year due to not be able to be rehomed? I think using the stb mares as surrogates is fantastic! thats a few less to go to the doggers.. If it so hard to rehome/sell pure Stb's breeding crosses is only going to mean that less purebred Stb's would be rehomed therefore meaning that even more would probably end up being destroyed. Why Cross a perfectly good harness bred horse to end up with a good or average riding horse? why not just buy a breed that was bred to be ridden?
    Take Friesens, great cart horse...crossbred to TB's to make a better riding horse.... I ahve had the pleasure of meeting a local breeder and he told me that the Friesen horse nearly became extinct but slowly the breed was brought back but now unfortunately there isnt a very big gene pool and therefore modern friesens seem to be plagued with health problems etc and this breeder was very open and honest and basically talked my friend out of buying one. Even this breeder was using TB mares to his stallion to simply produce a more affordable Friesen riding horse... anyway I may have gone off topic a bit there?!? :)
    anyway arent all modern day purebreeds purpose bred? I mean, if you wanted to buy a horse to round up livestock you would obviously purchase a horse bred for that purpose... you wouldnt go and buy a 17hh warmblood or a clydesdale....of course I am not saying that other breeds cant round up stock.....ok I am losing my way again.... lol
     

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