Feeding Preggy mares

Discussion in 'Feeding Horses' started by Sallighted, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. RUNNIN4CASH

    RUNNIN4CASH New Member

    Its a simple fact that soyabean meal has a better amino acid profile for growing horses.
    It is also a fact lupins due to their high crude protein content should not be used as a sole energy source esp in growing horses.
    Coliban your foals may grow huge on lupins but does a huge weanling yearling necessarily represent nutritional soundness?
     
  2. Taryn

    Taryn Well-known Member

    Lena that statement is so true. The photos you show us all of your stock show they are in impeccable condition despite the drought :)

    Runnin4cash We all have different views on all things equine, personally I don't feed grain as I find I don't need to, my arabs are bloody good doers that for sure, so I'm lucky. We have improved pasture and grow our own oaten hay which they get access to 24/7. At the moment as it's drought I do feed hardfeed to all my horses (mares, stally and youngsters). They get feramo H, breeda, lucerne chaff and oaten chaff. Each horse here gets whatever suits them, some have more this and less that.

    Back to the OP, I have use both Breeda and studmaster, find both of them really good. As others have already mentioned, give lots of hay and increase nutrients in the last trimester. You may find when that final hurdle comes your mare may not eat big feeds, as she simply has no room lol :D Split the feeds up into smaller amounts and give throughout the day if possible. Good luck
     
  3. Sallighted

    Sallighted Well-known Member

    Thanks for all the replies guys... it has been very informative :)*
     
  4. Please point out where I said that lupins are a sole energy source in our feeding regime? We feed export quality oaten hay and chaff as well.;) Or you recon its protein content is zero?';'

    Some people chuck the young ones in the back paddock, don't supplement ot hard feed at all.;) and expect them to grow to their full potential. Would you comment on their nutritional soundness without getting soyabean meal for a better amino acid profile for their growth?:)))

    You haven't answered my question, R4C:)
    Thank you Taryn:)* for your nice words on the condition of our apparently nutritionally unsound but miraculously glowing from inside out foals, stallions and mares.:)* achieved without processed feeds.
    lena
     
  5. ClubIgnite

    ClubIgnite Well-known Member

    R4C hardly a post of yours goes by without you saying you cant feed only lupins/or you can only feed a certain amount of them..ie 500g per 100kg BW While this may be a good GUIDELINE..
    Lupins are a perfectly acceptable energy source as well as protein- and starch being non existent is probably a better choice than loading up with grains etc. Protein(and energy) is likely to be just as overfed in other ways than lupins. I'm certainly not debating that soybean meal is superior in amino acid content but it is one of the easiest ways to 'over'feed protein unnecessarily.
    When lupins are fed with a low to medium quality/protein roughage they balance the protein levels to a similar level as a pellet would have. As for the incorrect CA/Ph ratio its nothing a bit of lucerne or supplement cant fix..(if you know what you're doing of course)
    This therefore doesnt represent any nutritional unsoundness.:))
     
  6. bubblez

    bubblez Well-known Member

    gosh if lupins are a growth retardent that god knows how big kya would have been! my mare & foal get lupins, lucerne, ffs and their supps and oaten hay and kya was measured at 12.2h at 4 months old! andh is going to mature a fair bit bigger than mum and dad (mum is 15.2 and dad is 15.3/16h)
     
  7. RUNNIN4CASH

    RUNNIN4CASH New Member

    And how is feeding 200 -500gms maximum of soyabean meal the easiest way to overload on protein.?
    I have never stated that you cannot feed lupins just that it should be limited.
    Looking at photographs of the oaten hay on Colibans website(and this is not directed at them specifically) it appears to be very mature and therefore would be high in lignin and offer little nutritional value.
    Calcium is not as bio available to the horse via supplements and it is far more effective to provide good quality lucerne to meet daily requirements.
    Coliban did not state they used lucerne hay they mentioned oaten hay and lupins along with a vitamin mineral supplement.
     
  8. ClubIgnite

    ClubIgnite Well-known Member

    at 45% protein just 500gm SB meal contains as much protein as 2.5 kg of oats or almost 3kg of maize! This is why its easy to overfeed..

    please read post as i said cant feed ONLY lupins not cannot feed lupins.

    as i said it wouldnt matter if the hay WAS poor/fibrous really because that is the main purpose of it- roughage- lupins provide the necessary protein and energy. And if vitamin minerals are 'apparently' not providing what they state- i dont know why anyone bothers to pay big $$ for them..?
     
  9. RUNNIN4CASH

    RUNNIN4CASH New Member

    FFS has a slightly lower protein content at 38% in comparrison to extracted soyabean meal which at 45% is only going to contribute 222.5 gms of protein with a lysine content of approx 13g lysine, 6g Metheonine and also 10g of Threonine an " important amino acid for optimum growth, feed conversion and nitrogen balance in tissues" and one that is often low in common grains and roughages.
    Growing horses in particular should be fed good quality roughage which can contribute signifigant energy, protein and vitamin/minerals to the growing horses diet.
    Roughage should never be considered merely "gut fill".
    My comment re minerals was in reference to Calcium.
    The ratio of chelated to non chelated minerals used in the supplement will determine the bio availability to the horse.
     
  10. ClubIgnite

    ClubIgnite Well-known Member

    there really shouldnt be a difference at all. Do you think that only pellets or premixed diets suit 'racing stock'? Obviously being a 'racing person'?

    And please explain why if lupins are supposedly a growth retardent, why are they used in so many quality stud 'premixes', such as hygain growtorque, pegasus studmaster, etc.? If the legume itself is doing the damage? Or are yu simply referring to the inverted CA/P ratio..in which case it is highly obviously anyway?
     
  11. RUNNIN4CASH

    RUNNIN4CASH New Member

    I dont use nor am I in favour of pre mixes however there are a couple of concentrates on the market that are designed to provide vitamin, minerals along with protein but minimal energy that are what they claim to be.
    I never stated that lupins will retard growth I said that they contain a growth retardent.
    It is an anti nutritional factor to be aware of.
    Soyabean meal also contains anti nutritional properties such as digestive and growth inhibitors(anti trypsin enzyme factors, goitrogenic and and coagulant compounds) heat processing destroys these compounds without damaging the amino acid profile.
    Feed companies use lupins because the are less expensive than soyabean meal and easier to mix in the batch. The majority of Soyabean meal would end up at the bottom of the bag unless pelleted.
    Feed companies also use cottonseed meal, peas and beans which all have a poor amino acid profile.
    However when used in combination with lupins they will suffice.
    As lupins are not advisable to feed at more than 1.5 kg/500kg body weight then one could estimate, theoretically, that a weanling or yearling should not be fed lupins in amounts greater than 750gms.
    Unless a weanling is on excptional pasture this would not provide enough DE for mainteneance of body condition and growth.

    Weanlings need consume approx 2.5-3% of their body weight daily in dry matter. With a roughage to concentrate ratio of 30-70 due to their under developed caecum.
    Crude protein requirements are in the range of 720-860 daily for a wanling with a mature body wight of 500kg
    Lupins contain 338gCP/kg so without considering the roughage componenet of the diet the protein level already close to half daily requirements. requirements.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  12. horsescomefirst

    horsescomefirst Well-known Member

    wow!! you are a book of knowledge!! **)

    hmmm i also feed a lot of soaked lupins to my horses with oats and hay, although the broodies only get the 1 hard feed a day so probably wouldnt be exceeding the limits.

    i love lupins, they put condition and dapples on horses in days, love the stuff :D

    so if lupins contain anti-growth properties, what would you suggest to feed to weanlings, yearlings??

    just oats and hay?
     
  13. RUNNIN4CASH

    RUNNIN4CASH New Member

    Lucerne hay combined with oaten/ meadow hay, soyabean meal a source of fat whether it be ricebran/oil or canola oil, salt and a vitamin mineral supplement that contains chelated minerals.
    There are also specific concentrates for breeding stock ie KER All Phase, HVBP, Mitavite Promita, Hygain GT AND Balance which can all be fed alone to provide vitamins minerals and protein or combined with grains such as oats or barley and of course roughage.
    I am not suggesting that you cannot feed lupins however to acheive the desirable DE daily intake in weanlings yearlings or horses in work using lupins
    as the only grain component provides excess protein and a less than ideal amino acid profile.
     
  14. PetaBizz

    PetaBizz Well-known Member

    I feed mine on a diet of soaked lupins and oats, millmix and plus chaff and lucerne. After reading this thread, I am having serious thoughts about my feeding regime????? :(
     
  15. ClubIgnite

    ClubIgnite Well-known Member

    Whilst what you say here is mostly true, and whilst personally i wouldnt do it, you could actually safely feed a weanling 1.5kg lupins a day(split feeds) at approx 520gCP, and i.e 3kg cereal hay(or chaff part of it) at 9% protein making that intake 270g total -790gCP
    While not the most ideal feed for weanlings, If you had limited pasture-i.e during drought conditions(which many of us are experiencing), the yield of approx 510mj DE should generally be sufficient to keep condition on most weanlings, at least in the short term-during the dry season.
     
  16. ClubIgnite

    ClubIgnite Well-known Member

    In actual fact, that sounds fine, most stud/performance pellets contain lupins/oats/wheat(i.e millmix) (and occasionally lucerne) and are designed to be fed with chaff-roughage.
     
  17. oldtenth

    oldtenth Well-known Member

    I choose a paddock with good pasture to run the mare on and top up with quality hay and depending on the soil/country is like, top up once a week a small bucket of chaff with vits/calicumn/mineral supps.

    Like a couple others its not until the last trimester do I start a hard feed with just the basics like flake or rolled grains and pellets that are design to help the pregnant mare along. After the mare has foaled contunie the hard feed with hay for up to 3 months and beyond this depends on how the mare is holding condition.

    I treat each mare differently, as some don't need much extra help and others do.
     
  18. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Wouldn't the internet feed consultation be better if it actually knew what ground each horse was on?

    Everything I have read about equine nutrition for maximum growth and performance potential takes into account the LOCALITY and ground/pasture conditions of horses.

    A blanket diet for all horses is crazy.......if I fed what others do my horses would explode (or implode). A bit like stating one type of fertilizer and conditioner for soil and applying that to every inch of paddock in Australia!

    The back of bagged feed clearly says that analysis results are subjective to individual conditons.........adding to that the metabolic rate of individual horses and the breed traits of each individual I think blanket feeding regimes are a recipe for disaster.

    Performance horses and race horses need to be grown carefully absolutely.......but feeding alone will not guarantee soundness short or long term. Considering things like DOD and OCD now have a traced genetic heritability, feeding regimes are only one small hurdle for breeders.
     

  19. I thought it was called a good business sence to achieve the same results (if not better:p) at a lesser cost.:}
    We keep it simple:)*
     
  20. alexander

    alexander Well-known Member

    To the OP, I have been feeding my broodmares, stallions and youngstock on Pegasus studmaster for many years, they are all in good condition and our warmblood youngsters are well grown.

    Our mares are warmblood and thoroughbred.

    We have no grazing and feed good quality oaten hay. The studmaster is mixed with lucerne chaff.

    Cheers
    Sharon
     

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