EPSM Diet - Results (and other factors)

Discussion in 'Feeding Horses' started by Eoroe, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    I have recently changed every horse onto the property onto a EPSM diet.

    The results have been fairly impressive in a subtle scale with most, and a pretty damm pleased scale with Ty :)

    He had experienced generalised sacroiliac issues, which basically appeared to be visually from prolonged incorrect use of his hindquarters, stiffness, weakening and then occasional stifle locking from the situation.

    Symptoms were;

    Evident under saddle, or just in paddock.
    Stiffness
    Problems with Backing up - would rather go up, and wriggle from side to side
    Problems with engaging HQ
    Bucking to a standstill - not running through the hands, tail clamping, kicking out hind.
    Uneven stride.
    Hopping action with the Hindquarters.
    Stepping short - and developing stress cracks in the wall on the hind toes, plus flaring of the walls from the propping stride.
    CLEAR cramping/spasm of the Illiacus, psoas and external obliques.
    Popping action of the stifle - yet not CLEARLY locking all the time.
    Less lying down, less rolling, less playing, and struggling on rising from laying down (not bouncing up for example)



    I had SMR suggest the EPSM to me - (thankyou :)* ) - and after much research, I decided that It really couldn?t hurt to try the diet, as I was virtually feeding 90% of such a diet anyway.

    Ty went on box rest - to control his movement, and basically let him sloth. He was boxed for 6 weeks - and over this period of time, he was treated with massage, electro-acupuncture (which was incredibly successful), and a lower energy, ever so slightly higher protein diet, added Magnesium, Added Selenium Basically ;

    Adlib Oaten Hay

    2 X Daily -
    2 litres of Oat Husks
    1/4 cup of Canola Meal
    Advanced Feeds Thia Mag - Recommended Feed rate
    Advanced Feeds E / Selenium - Recommended Feed rate

    This let down period of 4 weeks really showed incredible results - the hindquarters relaxed, and he developed a much more even, if not soggy - lol look to the hindquarters.

    The Stifle locking became VERY clear - and accelerated at an incredible rate over the first 3 weeks. It wasn?t a complete IMOBILE lock - but it was definitely impeding movement.
    On backing, turning, upward trans, and downward trans. Walking in straight line with controlled, steady movement was, somewhat acceptable.

    Electro Acupuncture relieved this incredibly! One session - and the next day, he was much more controlled in the area.

    From week 3 onwards - I also included 5 - 15 minutes of controlled, steady, forward walking maintaining as much step over from the hindquarters as he could - CONSISTENTLY - throughout the whole session. Up and down very gradual gradients. I also had the opportunity toe walk him through somewhat boggy sand (which is rare out here lol) after the storm that came through the wheat belt, as I had considerable wash out, and it all deposited along one fence line.

    We commenced big wide walk poles (thankyou Babe and everyone who suggested them) railway sleepers actually - and the combination was excellent.

    From the point of the Electro Acupuncture - combined with the walk poles he has strengthened, and strengthened, and become more forward engaged even and relaxed with his movement.

    At approx 6 weeks - I decided that it was better for everyone, If he was released from his imprisonment (lol) and I continued the programme form the paddock.

    I trusted that with the improvements we had gained - their was little risk of him reversing in progress, as he was executing the movement desired ALL the time now, being more beneficial than I could ever be with controlling it in a stable environment.

    I was incredibly pleased upon releasing him - he cantered, galloped, rolled, bronced, bucked, trotted and goofed around with NO indication of fear, pain, stifle catching or any of the like. (I had a little cry - then ran inside and had a big brag to the OH - lol)

    Now the reason I chose this EPSM diet for him to continue on, was in fact the result as well of me wanting to get a good source of Omega 3 into him to assist with the situation.

    With him being a very efficient digester :p I needed to exclude other energy sources from his diet to be able to provide it with the Linseed oil - as well as upping the Omega 3 to a level I was happy with.

    His muscle development has continued to climb. He has no problems with stiffness -he movement is confident, forward (or backwards) or sideways - lol, and fluid and free.

    He is playing with the other horses again - picking fights...lol....and chooses to canter, prance, go for a hoon - without, once again fear, panic, or evident pain. He is even starting to look once again like he did 2 years ago, and his quirky mannerisms are coming back.....eg. waving a front leg in the air whilst eating ? haha! rather ice to see in a strange way :)

    The difference in his diet - is the replacement of other energy sources - with a vegetable oil. He is still getting the same energy level pocked in the front end - but the result are evident in the back end! *#)

    I have changed all the horses onto the property along these lines - avoiding grains.

    The ?Skinnies? (Not really skinny at all actually ? lol Just the ones that need a tad more help to maintain at BSC of 3.5)
    2 litres of Oat Husks
    Vit min mix.
    1 cup of canola meal
    1/2 cup of Canola oil.
    Advanced feeds ? E/selenium
    Adlib hay and pasture.
    +plus 1 litre of soaked lupins daily.

    The Fatties (the ones that need a tad more help to maintain at BSC of 3.5 as well ? just with LESS food)
    2 litres of Oat Husks
    Vit min mix.
    1/8 cup of canola meal
    1/4 cup of linseed oil.
    Advanced feeds ? E/selenium
    Adlib hay and pasture.

    Ty ?
    2 litres of Oat Husks
    Vit min mix.
    1/3 cup of canola meal
    1/3 cup of linseed oil.
    Advanced feeds ? E/selenium
    Adlib hay and pasture.

    They have all changed shape. They are fitter in appearance, they have much freer, forward movement, the dapples are iridescent, muscle development is appearing - and they have, actually lost weight, and appear to be maintaining at a good level...... **)

    Breeds involved are;

    (Skinnies - lol - remember, they are not skinny at all...just need a tad more)
    Holsteiner X TB - 17.3 13 year old
    TB - 16.1 15 years old
    (Fatties)
    QH - 15hh 13 years old
    Arab Derivative - 15 hh 13 years old
    (Ty)
    Andalusian X TB - 15.3 hh 5 years old

    All through extra Vegetable oil provision , and exclusion of grains.
    So - basically - I just wanted to write this novel, as even though their are other defining factors in this - I really do think that trying an EPSM diet is an easy way to troubleshoot many of the most common problems that we find our equine friends suffering with.

    Here are some other sypmtoms and signs of EPSM - I have bolded which apply, or had applied to TY specifically ;

    Muscle wasting, especially in the rear quarters
    Muscle weakness
    Gait abnormality or lameness
    Work intolerance
    Poor performance

    Rhabdomyolysis ("Tying Up", "Monday Morning Sickness")
    Stringhalt - or indicators similar
    Shivers
    A peculiar 'hitch' in a rear leg while walking
    Dis-coordination in backing
    Failure to rise after anesthesia


    Keep it in mind guys - it could be handy one day **)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  2. samm

    samm Gold Member

    The vet highly suspect one of our horses to be an EPSM horse so cut all grains ,added lots of oils and fats to his diet and see improvement after only 2 weeks.
    One thing we've also added it vit E .
    Another thing with EPSM horses is they are extremely sensitive to flies.Since being on his diet the horses fly sensitivity has also lessened dramatically.

    Thing is an EPSM diet wont hurt a non EPSM horse but a normal grains diet will hurt an EPSM horse.

    Hygain have also formulated a feed suitable for EPSM horses ,I believe its called Hygain Zero.Will give it a try when the stockfeeder has it in stock.
     
  3. Glad to hear it has worked so well nancy :)

    LOL about the fatties.. dont be mean :p they are just cuddly! :p :eek:
     
  4. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    Please excuse the question marks all through it - it was done in word and pasted in here.......? is the translation for , or -.

    I'll edit when I get home - I need to go deliver eggs **)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  5. Deb2

    Deb2 Guest

    Thanks for sharing all of that.**) I am so glad you've had success and your Ty is feeling heaps better.

    Where's the pics though?';'

    Deb
     
  6. Fe

    Fe Well-known Member

    I think from memory for it to work properly you cant feed any grain or grain by products. You also need to watch the sugar content in the feeds.

    So oaten hay and oat husks are a big no no. There is another Au based forum that has got a great wealth of information re epsm..
     
  7. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    Oaten products are okay as far as I understand - you just need to provide plenty of other oils fats as well.

    In providing Grain derived products you are not inhibiting the uptake - you are just not 'uptaking' the appropriate things needed for the funtion of the muscle development. Feeding a large amount of a grain product that may replace needed oil fats in the diet could cause problems, and imbalance to diet.

    Thats basically the end result from all the reasearch I have done.

    I am under the understanding that it is the digestion of the starch, and grain itself that is the issue.

    Sorry - no pictures, no time :( No extra person to take them ...lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  8. Jaana

    Jaana Well-known Member

    Oat husks are ok as they do not contain the grain which contains the sugar.
    But oaten hay can cause issues.

    I have long suspected that Tally has EPSM as he had very similar symptoms to what you described Ty having, as well as stretching out to urinate whilst riding but never urinating.
    Again thanks to SMR, I changed his diet and a different horse arrived.

    Tally's diet needs a bit more adjustment as I just ran out of oil and he is currently on poor quality oaten - as in last years cut (not moldy). However I do believe he is better on wheaten hay so may put him back on that.
     
  9. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    Very interesting Jaana :)

    In theory - the oaten hay should be okay as well......If cut correctly,m it also shouldnt contain oat grain.

    I just got inside - they are all runnign around like nutters - playing.......something has got to be working...lol
     
  10. Jaana

    Jaana Well-known Member

    I believe with the hay, it depends on when it is cut; and it depends on each horse.
     
  11. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    oooh.....very interesting - I may have to research more on that one.... **)
     
  12. Fe

    Fe Well-known Member

    Not sure, but I was told that nothing to do with grains was alowed. If you PM me, I will forward the link to the other place and you can have a read..

    Its not only the sugars you have to worry about its the starches etc.
     
  13. Trojan

    Trojan New Member

    Oat husk

    Can any one tell me where I can get oat husk near Bullsbrook.
     
  14. Coda Cowgirl

    Coda Cowgirl Well-known Member

    Gnangara produce stock it...Bullsbrook stockfeeders dont and i'm not sure about Brigadoon produce.
     
  15. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    Eoroe, that's great news **)

    Since moving, i also have put my boy onto a somewhat EPSM diet.
    I say 'somewhat', because he is on oaten hay. Which from what i've read, is not allowed.
    Niether is access to pasture.
    I think best if your horse has meadow hay and no grass, no grain products at all. But that's not really do-able for me, and wasn't at my last agistment.
    I think what the others are saying about sugars. Which is why i was worried when all the extra green new season hay started appearing last year.

    I use Speedibeet as a substitute for oaten chaff, but he still gets lucerne chaff and 500mls oil daily (just been increased).

    I have been wanting to get a hold of some meadow hay, and go 50:50 oaten and meadow, but worried about the rhy toxicity, and i don't want stuff with barley grass and weeds through it.

    Eoroe, are you using the oat husks covered in oil? Sweetchaff? Or are they just plain husks?
    Have you (or has anyone) tried, or considered trying, Maxi Soy, a pellet (i think) made from soya bean hulls? I think you're meant to soak them. Not sure. And not sure if they have molassas.
     
  16. STANCER

    STANCER New Member

    Again, you can look at some of the stance feeds: Coolstance, Coolfibre. Omega also do weightgain which is the inside portion of the sunflower seeds. Definately you need to watch what has been coated with mollasses!!!. Our POWERSTANCE has a testamonial on it by the rider of MAKE A WISH multi supreme champion mare under saddle, who practically lives on the POWERSTANCE. (Powdered coconut oil, is fat based).

    All the best and glad your diet is working.
     
  17. Nightsky

    Nightsky Guest

    How about Copra ?
     
  18. Nightsky

    Nightsky Guest

    oh and livamol ? it has molasses in it though ...
     
  19. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    Yep **) You all have excellent idea's - but I honestly think they will all blow his socks off - lol (he is an VERY good doer....lol)

    Buuut...Im willing to try anything.....but I have a plethora of excuses why I dont choose what you have all so kindly suggest - not trying to be difficult....(I just am - haha! :p)

    Copra, coolstance, and I dont like feeding Coconut Products - its an ethical desicion, I dont like the method of production, and im not keen on the storage and production techniues :))

    I dont trust pre - mixed procsesed products...sorry! I prefer to feed whole feeds. Their are no governing bodies, or strict guidlines that say what can and cant go into animals feeds (yes...im a control freak - lol)

    Livamol - well....he doesnt need it, and personally their are better, cheaper products out their. I feel it is a bit of a 'human feel good feed' at times :)
    (I dont have money to burn.....lol)


    Soy bean hulls - I have heard of the prouct, but once again - it isnt really nessesary. It offer similar results to the diets he is already one, at a higher price.

    Canola meal - Is a bi-product.
    Lupins - grown locally.
    Hay - We produce ourselves.
    Oathusks - locally sourced (incredibly cheap, high in fibre) and also a bi-product.
    Linseed oil - a integral source of appropriate energy nessesary to the EPSM diet, and high in Omega Oils.


    Absolutely - their are other things out their, but it comes down to what works - and is availiable locally **)
     
  20. justanothergirl

    justanothergirl Well-known Member

    I've been feeding mine the Maxisoy for the last 9 months, although I don't feed it for EPSM reasons. It doesn't contain any molasses or a high sugar content. They do advise to add water to it, which is absorbed within minutes. As it has such a high fibre content to it I don't bother feeding any chaff. At $22.00 a bag I find it much better bang for buck in comparison to Speedibeet.
     

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