Department of Environment strikes again

Discussion in 'News Items' started by Floggadog, Jan 2, 2010.

  1. Floggadog

    Floggadog Guest

    Surely there are better ways of going about this.
    If you wish to complain ,please write polite emails/faxes or letters to the Western Australia State Govt Minister who it is understand is ultimately responsible for the decision by the Dept to plug water wells which has resulted in outrageous suffering and cruelty endured by the animals to demand that water be reinstated.

    Derelict station a lure to death - The West Australian
  2. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Flogga. Sorry mate but I wont lament the loss of feral goats, this water has been enabling feral animals to reproduce on mass.

    If anything I am angered no one went in after the water was turned of to shoot them. leaving them to die a slow death is cruel. But I for one dont want to see the water put back on for feral goats.
  3. Floggadog

    Floggadog Guest

    I'm not disagreeing with you there Shar. However it was not & is not just feral goats, camels & brumbies that are affected.
    It's the native animals as well.
    When the water was put on 100 years ago these creatures knew where the natural water sources were & taught their offspring where it was.
    To just walk in & turn off the water after changing what used to be a natural instinct without , as you say, shooting them or systematically offering water further & further away from the area over several years is to me just plain wrong.
    JMO though ;)
  4. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Flogga, its no differant to a natural event causing the water to no longer be there, such as an earthquake diverting underground water or a rockslide diverting a river etc.

    There are no guarantees in this life time.

    You have to consider that the water source natuarally would never have been there in the first place, humans put it there.
  5. Floggadog

    Floggadog Guest

    Makes me wonder what fine I'd end up with from the RSPCA if I pushed in all my dams & pulled the plug on all my tanks leaving the animals to work it out for themselves.
    Nothing natural at all about humans creating watering points, then 100 years later removing them again.
    100 years ago the animals knew the water wasn't there, humans changed that knowledge.
  6. himitsu

    himitsu Well-known Member

    Ah the DEC. Everyone hates them even though they are just trying to clean up the mess we have all made and protect us from our fate. Everyone loves a scapegoat eh!
  7. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    And Floggs Mate, the Lord Giveth and the Lord Taketh away.
  8. Floggadog

    Floggadog Guest

    Guess that depends on whether or not you're religious Shar ;)
  9. ChallaDeb

    ChallaDeb New Member

    There are many different animals that rely on the human made waters to survive in the bush. (Sometimes even humans!) Turning off the waters affects dozens of species of native animals and birds, not just the goats. The stronger animals (often the goats, emus, some birds and roos) can make it to an alternative water supply, on a neighbouring property. So turning off the waters does not magically cure the feral goat "problem." It just concentrates the animals in another area.

    The unquestionable suffering of those animals too small or weak to travel to the neighbour's windmill is horriffic and cruel beyond belief.

    The neighboring pastoralists will not complain when the goats move in from DEC properties as they are worth $$$. However a high concentration of kangaroos or emus can have a detrimental affect on a neighbour's property. Turning off waters doesn't fix anything, it just moves some animals and makes others suffer and perish.

    The DEC properties are not fenced adequately so animals can still move in when surface water is available (rain) and move back out when it dries up.

    Sharaway, if you want to control the rangeland goats, start demanding them from your butcher, the prices will increase and the pastoralists will harvest and sell even more of them. That is the time tested way to control these animals and everybody benefits. Goat meat is the most widely eaten meat in the world! All Aussies should be eating it too.
  10. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    I want to see every feral controlled or better still eliminated including the human variety :)

    Sadly I dont always get what I want :)

    Seriously how else would you suggest DEC handle it, turn the water supply of Tues/thurs one week, then Sat Wed Fri the next week, leave water out in buckets slowly decreasing the supply over 3 months?

    All you succeed in doing there is prolonging the deaths.

    At the end of the day the water didnt exist there by nature, and things have now been returned to the same.

    Nature will overcome this disaster that has impacted on in all reality a very small population of native and feral animals.
  11. nannygoat

    nannygoat Gold Member

    nom nom nom We Do!!
  12. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    Sharaway you have know idea at all as ChallaDeb has said who I agree 100% with.

    Perhaps the goats were pets left behind as normally if the water stops they move on, they could have been sick ate poison.

    Why don't they build an abattoir that can process camel, just can't stand waste so many starving in the world, maybe we should just import food grown in sewage.

    Our biggest impact on our environment is human stupidity.

    Turning water's of should be gradual at least then they have a chance to adjust, just think of the bird lose.

    Didn't want get into this but I just wish people understood beyond there backyard.
  13. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    GJ, I do fully understand, I have spent my share of time on Stations, and I seen first hand what happens when water fails.

    It because I have seen first hand that I fully support what DES have done.
  14. jacko88

    jacko88 Well-known Member

    Geejay we do have abattoirs that process feral camels!
    They kill hundreds of the buggers every week for human consumption export.
  15. Skittled

    Skittled Well-known Member

    You shouldn't be hard on the DEC, like mentioned, they are only doing their jobs. Goats cause serious amounts of degradation and displace native animals. They kill the environment. I was up on a station a few months ago, and there was nothing left of the vegetation, it was really depressing.


    There would be thousands of goats on the property, so it's just not possible to shoot them all. Ultimately they will die of starvation. Death from dehydration is a lot quicker than starvation, especially in the north.
  16. nannygoat

    nannygoat Gold Member

    Managed Goats cause signifigantly less damage than other species.

    Simple Trap Yards around water sources would enable the goats to be exported and thus make money AND feed people.

    I wonder if you would be content to sit and watch "thousands" of animals die from dehydration because it is quicker?? What an appalling thing to think.
  17. jacko88

    jacko88 Well-known Member

    I disagree with this. Just my opinion but I'll put my reasons below.

    Goats are a huge industry in our area, mostly rangeland (feral) goats that are harvested and sent to slaughter or live export. To give you an idea of the numbers harvested, between two places 12000 feral goats were mustered and trucked in a fortnight. That figure is only the animals that made weight, so there would have been thousands of smaller ones not trucked also.

    However there are also some properties that have given up on traditional livestock and are farming goats 100%. These places are not over their carrying capacity, but the country is doing it a lot tougher than neighbours still running sheep. The difference between boundaries is easily visible.
  18. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    Boy thats a huge statement :confused:is that all they have on this Station we make our living from Rangeland Goats and just the other day we were sent our Rangeland report and our Station has improved 88%.

    We also have rare birds and animals living side by side with the goats.

    Mind you we have a very good management program and don't over stock.
  19. himitsu

    himitsu Well-known Member

    My OH is part of a team planning to truck feral camels to abottoirs and even live export... beats just shooting them :)) Huge logistical nightmare of course, and taking a heck of a lot to set up, but they are getting there...
  20. himitsu

    himitsu Well-known Member

    Skittled - dont know if this is the case in your picture, but you have to consider what the native vegetation was like prior to european settlement - it would not have been forest i can tell you that much - its quite natural to have quite sparse vegetation up there. The goats can only be blamed if there is a vast difference (and irrepairable damage) from the pre-European composition and structure, and weed infestation (and therefore the condition considered to be degraded). But DEC knows this and are (i assume) attempting to return the station to as similar as possible to pre-Euro (AKA Natural).

    If people are upset about DEC's management perhaps they should consider the limitations they are dealing with - including lack of staff, funding and huge legislative requirements. Ever considered that the pumping of ground water may have been an issue (financially and/or environmentally)?

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