Discussion in 'Problem Horses' started by Go the Distance, Mar 25, 2013.
I also said in my first few words...At a PC event ';'
Sorry missed this post earlier.
Who do you think is handling these horses out the back? Strangers. Strappers hired for the day, stable hands that work for other stables. A couple of months ago I got stuck holding not just our horse but watching someone else's 3 because they kept busting the chains and bursting out the tie ups, trainer and strapper were preoccupied so these horses werent being watched (huge thanks to Jimmy Taylor for helping too!) and naughty horses are rarely sent back to trials haha, only those that absolutely need it (their green, accident happened etc) The jockey gets bucked off? He gets back on once cleared. Soooo many horses have barrier issues alot worse than simply just not going in. Bunbury a few months back jockey came off and ripped the bridle of the horses face. We caught the horse at the bend just before it came though the damn barrier to get back to the stalls, just before it out its leg through the reins. Horse was vet checked, bridle back on, jockey back on and off to race it went. We tried blinkers in a horse once, blinkers either make te horse better or worse, he did 2 laps of the track before the jockey could pull him up. We didn't put blinkers on again. And he didn't have to trial, the stewards simply said they'd prefer (so no definite) a senior jockey on him next time.
There's no fines for unattended horses as far as I know, at least if there is they are definetly not reinforced. After an 18 hour work day I was ripped of my feet by a horse and yes he got away from me. I was tired and lost concentration for a split second, that's all it took. What happens is 'lose horse' is yelled, all gates are shut and the horse is caught. In that situation they asked if I was ok (embarrassed but yes ok) and that's it. Back to work.
Ok so yes there's soooooo much room for accidents yet not many happen (I'm talking about on the ground here to race ride accidents) and in my eyes it can only be because there's so many experienced people about that know what their doing, know how to handle situations.
And I guess the biggest difference (probably most important) is that gear is checked BEFORE it goes on the horse. Girths are checked before the rider gets on. And even if it were dodgy we are lucky to have a surcingle as back up. Mistake are still made with 'illegal' gear (one time a pre trainer turned trainer tried to put rings on her horse as it worked in them at home, major oops there!) but there's enough people to pick it up before it even gets to the parade ring.
So you're not sure of the actual "rules" SBB? There are fines, and I haven't been in that Industry for a LONG time....why?....I love horses **)
No I can't quote every rule off the top of my head. Can you?
I happen to enjoy my industry, guess that means I don't love horses then huh. Rude much. I could go into a huge rant about everything wrong with showing, yeah so much 'love' there, but I won't because I won't knock what others are in to. I can say though that I am glad I left the showing side of horses for racing. I'll say it again, if you can't handle hot headed horses then don't be around them. Yes riders/owners are at fault but you can't control that, you can control wether or not you get near them though.
Yes, my "rudeness" is well-documented on this forum I've not said I can quote "every rule", but I do know the rules about the topics I discuss. I do not, in any way, think it is unrealistic for a horse to turn up at a public event that it is "trained" for, and to behave. **)
It is rude to imply people in racing do not love horses #(
Of course it's not unrealistic to expect that but what I'm saying is you can't control it so if you can't handle the situation of naughty over excited horses then don't put yourself in it. And as for the racing rules on loose horses, 'out of control' horses etc the rules are flakey. The stewards can give a fine if they want yes but they very rarely do because really if they were fining trainers for every hot headed horse they wouldn't have time for any real work. There is no 'if your horse is unattended, or dangerous you WILL cop a fine' its you might.
I'm sure it's Wattle I've come across taking about socializing & desensitizing her young horses to a showing environment. It is something I had never considered but it makes sense.
I imagine 'some' horses (and mine would be included) only go to these turnouts once every month or two.
It would be similar to taking them into a foreign environment for the first time except they have done it, a long time ago. They are plonked in amongst 20+ new horses & maybe it frys their brains just a little.
I guess what I'm getting at is there are at least 2 components to this problem and to overcome this the horse & rider need to take the time to attend on days when they are not joining in or competing. Use it as an individual training day with no pressure to be amongst people & other horses - should things not go to plan.
And a dangerous horse is just that. There is club rules for a reason & someone ( President of club?) needs to man up & ask that the dangerous horse be removed.
Preparation preparation preparation.
Not going to enter into the argument, whoops I mean discussion about racing v showing, I've never seen a horse race live right in front of me so yeah.......... moving right along.
In general I just don't get how people can have horses that just walk all over the top of them in the first place ';' I seriously don't get it.
In response to your question on how best to deal with the situation you asked about GTD.......... through gritted teeth with a sense of humour and a drink or several at the days end is my best guess.
As we see so frequently on this forum there's just no telling some people so where's the point in saying 'Oi, you, your horse is dangerous, teach it some manners' to someone who reckons their out of control Shermin Tank masquerading as a horse eats fairy floss and farts out rainbows? Where's the point? Sir Shermin Tank can do no wrong in the eyes of it's driver, there's no point saying anything because they just can't see the forest for the trees.
It's because I can handle "naughty" (insert untrained) over-excited horses that I prefer not to handle other peoples in a Show environment, and as mentioned - I just won't. In my opinion, it's cruel to toss the horse in at the deep, unprepared-for end, and expect that they will just magically be amazing for strangers/volunteers as the need presents. I want, at the end of a volunteering stint, to be able to go home hale & hearty to my own horses (that rely on me) and to my family (who I've just been away from all day). Most other people would also have to front-up to a 9-5 job the next day. I don't think it's at all unreasonable for Competitors to present their horses in such a way that I remain safe. So, in saying I can handle fractious horses, what about all the poor vollies who can't? I know lots and lots of horsey Mums who could not get close to a fractious horse without the level of danger escalating. Should their own child then not compete because Mum can't volunteer for the Helper duty that is required, because Miss Sally Snootypants won't train her horse to present safely?
Yes Floggadog, I do spend hours and hours teaching my young horses how to go out in the World safely and calmy. It's not practical for most people though, that buy an older, ridden horse already going Under Saddle. The horses raised the way I do though, are a lot more valuable than the OTTB's though - wonder why
Bit off topic, but I was watching the races on Saturday and was surprised to see a jockey get back on the horse so soon after getting bucked off. Horse just did not want to go in barrier and after a few minutes they finally got it in, where it flipped out, jockey got thrown off etc. He got checked over (looked like it really hurt!) then got straight back on, rode really well, horse ran 2nd. Brave jockey *#)
Yep I believe a horses should be respectful of people and have a turn off and chill button installed (yes a little tounge in cheek but all of ours at home if you sit back and relax and loosen off the reins it's chill time) One miff I have is with gear checkers who don't know the rules properly (and at the time I didn't either though I do know now and will say no its fine a lot firmer!)I had one tell me my girth was too loose and wouldn't pass me if it wasn't done up tighter (it was fine my mare hates an over tight girth) and also tightened up my plain cavesson noseband to it was tighter than two fingers ';' (it was purely on their for looks and done up as loose as possible as I normally don't ride with a noseband!) so I went away and loosened everything back off ... btw it was at an ARCA day.
My horse is probably classed as "rude, disrespectful" by some gear checkers, as he is a fidget at times.
He does have a problem standing still when they come up and have the papers on the clipboard flapping in his face. He is not the bravest of soles and requires a very quiet approach.
I normally either have him gear checked with somebody holding him or dismounted. I hope to look after the gear checkers and his safety that way.
Big **) to all the volunteers at these events.
Maddog I think it great you dismount sometimes. I would bet your horse feels much more secure with his 'Mum' where he can see her in front of him. A lot of horses react better to situations when you are on the ground with them.
I do think though, it can be also up to the gear checker in some respects. I have seen many and have been surprised in some instances where they have set up shop either in the middle of the warm up or on the far side, I have also come across one who would not gear check until your number was called, which generally meant the horse was warmed up, ready to go and yeah, very toey.
Most I have seen that have checked the gear as the horse has entered the area have been as you would expect, politely standing.
not trained? guess you have not seen many 2*/3* cross country warm ups then. Even Jackson would refuse to stand still knowing it was soon his turn to go cross country!
Why do you say, "Even Jackson"?
It's my opinion that a horse should follow all of the rules of an event (any type of event). If the event rules say, horse should stand (and I have a good understanding of excited "standing") for a gearcheck - why then is a horse allowed to compete that can't present for a gear check? I don't make the rules. I don't need to even have seen one 2* warm-up or any other warm-up to be able to read the rules clearly stated in a rule book.
Mind you, speed signs are clearly on the Freeway and people do what they want anyway, so this is obviously a very old-fashioned opinion that I have *#)
Funny that this topic should come up again after my own horse smacked me in the head at a Show on the weekend lol. He was miffed at waiting around between classes, and clearly expressing himself. His telling-off would have been a LOT more severe if it hadn't been me he was expressing himself to, though. I know him, I know he was impatient to get on with the job, but I wouldn't let him endanger someone else. )
Do you think he really knows the difference between smacking you in the head, and smacking someone else? Just my opinion of course, but I think punishment should be the same I don't give my horse enough credit to know the difference between hurting me and other people *#)
No, he wouldn't know the difference at all....or maybe he would, who knows ';'
Mine are all very good and obliging but I do admit both of mine fidgeted a bit for the gear checker at their first events. They are both fine now but it just was something new and they were young, neither did anything dangerous and now even my 4yo stallion stands quietly waiting for his turn.
I definitely don't like it when horses are dangerous to those around them. Having judged, its not fun trying to get ribbons on and almost losing toes or having horses on top of me. I used to try getting ribbons on but now if its not safe I will give them to the handler. I have also watched one horse nearly double barrel a judge not once but twice in the same class. It was the only horse in the class and the judge sent it out of the ring and rightly so.
This also carries into ridden, nothing like trying to ride past other horses kicking out, bucking, bolting around etc. Good thing is my lovely mare is not phased so she will canter on quietly straight in between 2 horses losing the plot I understand horses need exposure to learn but safety first, teach it out of the way of everyone else and if its not safe don't enter the class.
We don't have a rule saying our horses have to be stood still for a cross country gear check, actually out EA you don't need to stand still for any of the gear checks. Even seen a horse stood still for a gear check at the Olympics? Don't think so.
It always frustrates me when I go to get a gear check at a EA/PC shared event and there is always one power tripping PC mum wanting to put their hands all over me and my horse, and even if my horse is standing still I don't let them. It is not a rule they don't have any right to touch me or my horse.
when I say even Jackson I mean the spotty horse I used to ride. Now I think about it I can't remember a horse I have ridden in the past 5years that have stood quietly before going xc