De-sensitising horses

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by taylor, Apr 25, 2011.

  1. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    exactly sil :)*:)*:)*

    yes evp, you may,
    the horse working with the kids is my dressage horse who scores in the high 70%s. but i also do breed shows, hacking, dressage and pleasure rides with both horses.
    lollipop, and aide is nothing more than a "trick" so i am confused with your statement.
    I just might be lucky that my horses excel in several disciplines, whilst exhibiting controlled expression in all they do but i am sure there are many horse owners who are more than happy with the way their horses work.perform for them.
     
  2. lollipop

    lollipop Active Member

    Sorry Smash I am also confused with this statement?';'

    I don't see food as a reward, I have also seen some great trick trainers that should never be allowed to try their hand at any thing but trick training with a horse, this is not directed at you Smash.
    I agree with Coli horses humans should not be play with horses just as dogs and horses should not be allowed to play. **)

    Just popped into OD and a thread about dogs- out of control and whatever happened to the dogs that tore the mini pony apart? I bet that mini is really desensitised however the owner would be traumitised and broke-ised from the vet bill!
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  3. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    And isn't a "boss" a leader?

    I don't think a horse considers it a "game" when he moves for a more senior horse. He is actually acknowledging that the horse is further up the boss ladder then him. Therefore one would assume that "games" are not in a horses vocabulary but rather again - leader & follower.

    Yep and thats why a horse higher up the chain reminds the others every day who is boss.....

    While I too like watch liberty demos I don't find them the least bit "training".....what I do see is people feeling very satisfied when they get the desired reaction (which must also mean people get disappointed when they don't) and a horse who gets nothing from it except a chance to wear no tack.....lolol

    But people can do what they like with their horses.........and their aspirations are their own.
    I wonder how many people attempt to get the whole "liberty" thing going and ruin a good riding horse in the process. I guess we'll never know unless liberty horse training can become language horse training.

    I find it all facinating that so many people actually "personify" their horses.....

    Its very much a case of each to their own.....and justifying those things that generally deserve justifying....;)
     
  4. Go the Distance

    Go the Distance Well-known Member

    Excellent post EVP**).
     
  5. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    I shouldn't laugh Lollipop but perhaps those dogs were not de-sensitised enough at home before they left for the big smoke.
    Or perhaps the dogs just "forgot" that they couldn't chase those horses because they didn't "know" them?

    When my kids were small they wern't allowed to jump on the lounge. Subsequently they knew that you didn't jump on ANY lounges at anyone's place. Because kids are kids the rules were consistent. Its wrong here and its wrong elsewhere.
    Boundries, consistency, leadership tempered with kindness and reward for good behaviour.........hummmm gee doesn't that sound a bit like dog and horse training.....AHAHAHAH
     
  6. Mod 5

    Mod 5 Moderator

    Just want to say - keep up the great discussion people :)
    Nice to see the thread staying on track ;)
     
  7. whitepantheress

    whitepantheress Well-known Member

    What I was saying with all my quotation marks was that those are human words. I don't think they are accurate to what the horse sees. Every interaction with your horse is very serious and either contributes to you being a leader or takes away from that position.

    That doesn't mean the techniques are stupid or useless, only that they work differently to what the words suggest. They offer another way to interact with your horse, and things you can get your horse to do. Anything we ask our horses to do probably seems silly to them, but as humans I think deciding any persons way of interacting with their horse is inherently silly compared to your own seems a bit arrogant.

    I suspect they are called "games" to indicate an air of being light hearted and relaxed, as humans tend to get nervous and intense with horses, at least a fair number do. I still pose that no technique is useless or unusable, so long as it is not cruel and can fit a leader/follower partnership paradigm.

    ETA: I just re-read your post EVP and I think you actually reworded what I was saying in another way. I am a bit tired so at first I thought you thought I meant something other than what you were saying. But I actually mean pretty much what you said under my quotes.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
  8. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    WP I so get the tired thing!! I had computer work to all hours last night....damn I hate time zones.
    But yes I think we kinda both had the same train of thought - tired or not....lolol
     
  9. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    Just a bit horrified at this video got a short Glimpse at the end of our little Tonka hope he is well and looking after the young people.
     
  10. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    Also to add after my Experience shaking and crying not been able to pull the trigger to put our little filly down after been terrorized by wild dogs my goodness the horse world has gone mad.
     
  11. lollipop

    lollipop Active Member

    Yes all dogs are wild dogs given the opportunity, it is amazing what people get away with, perhaps they have never seen the horrific things disobedient and out of control dogs can do to not just horses but prey animals in general. I have yet to see a horse tell any dog to "go away" when the dog has it by its nose. Just ignorance.#(
     
  12. KC Quarter Horses

    KC Quarter Horses Gold Member

    Your experience Janet is with dogs that chase and attack horses....ie wild dogs. The only dog I had that chased horses was Cassie, whom you met and it was bred into her as she was fixated with movement. She was rehomed with a dog trainer sheep property, where she can do what she was bred for.

    However, Bundy does not chase and does not bite ....he does bark though. Out on trail he does run in and out of the bush being his exhuberant self. The reality is none of our horses give a stuff about Bundy and most enjoy his company. They like having him there out on trail and for some reason seem more relaxed when he is with us.

    Interesting how many people have made assumptions on 2 seconds of a dog in a video when really you know sweet FA about the dog, the horse or the situation. But then as I mentioned before some people dont bother with truth when it comes to a good story.

    Tonka is fine and well .....he doesnt give a stuff about the dog either. In fact it was Bundy that got Smokey out of his dog anxiety and considering the amount of times that we see other dogs on trail and at shows its just as well our horses are not anxious over them. When they have a job to do its better when they can focus on what is being asked of them than worring about the numerous dogs sitting around the arenas.
     
  13. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Like I mentioned in an earlier post my insurance would have a fit.....having dogs enter yards or paddocks and "play" with horses which obviously causes horses to run could become an issue if we needed (or an owner needed) to make a claim. My guess is that they would classify any resulting accident as "negligence" and contribute blame to the person in charge (or as they call them - person in custody and control).

    Lolli I agree wholeheartedly. It is said that horses are the most accident prone animal on the planet........as such, most owners look to remove as many variables as is humanly possible.
     
  14. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Just adding about "wild dogs"...........
    Many years ago when my OH was a lad, he owned 2 beautiful Labs. Both were the most obedient dogs at home and were fairly well bahaved pups as they grew.
    Lived all their lives on the family property where there were horses and a few goats and lots of chickens.

    The dogs never chased anything at home because of adequate fencing and supervision (most likely because of staff) - but after a few visits from the local constabulary it was revealed that Raja and Beau had been killing other people's chickens and had mauled a young goat that belonged, of all things, to the local school!!! Both dogs were 4 and 5 years old and rather than having a farmer ping them and having them die in a ditch - OH's parents had them put to sleep.

    Last time I looked Labs are'nt known as "wild dogs"........but given the opportunity ANY dog has the capabilities to cause grief........this is especially so without proper supervision or facilities. Some dogs don't even "maul" what they chase or play with - they just tire it to death!!
     
  15. old_mate

    old_mate Well-known Member

    People will keep doing stuff untill the accident happens then they might change, then again they may not.

    I used to have horses and dogs, now just have the horses. I always tried to keep the horses and dogs appart. Now I keep the horses and my child apart because accidents happen.
     
  16. lollipop

    lollipop Active Member

    I do hope it is a good story KC for you your horses and your dog.**) Vet bills are expensive and the loss of a beloved animals is heartbreaking.
    The truth is ALL dogs given the opportunity will attack a prey animal because they are predators. Fact.**)

    Ah yes the whole lets get the dog to play/chase the horse to desensitise it to dogs.....again.:p I don't need my dogs to chase /play with my horses to have the horses accustomed to dogs.:)))
    No sane person is going to defend anyone who lets dogs play/chase horses suggest you get Boxer a chew toy or ball so he doesn't have a fixation on your nice black pony,for both doggies sake and ponies sake.**)
     
  17. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    EVP, so your OH's dogs weren't "wild". They were naughty, and probably bored :p Also, not very well supervised if they were off the property :(

    Last year my 9mth old Great DaneX pup (that had grown up with chickens, cat, foalie, etc), did a similar thing. We'd moved house, he'd never shown an agressive nature...so I didn't even think about the neighbours having sheep. We were out one day (still moving things), and he found the sheep VERY entertaining. What started as chasey, soon turned to him grabbing one, then two... I blame myself entirely as this breed of dog is a reknown red-zone dog...and he was bored and unsecured. He was PTS immediately.


    My dogs are trained for my lifestyle...but I learned, they also have to be trained for my neighbours choices as well. Same as suburban dogs that won;t shut the heck up...bloody nuisances.
     
  18. lollipop

    lollipop Active Member

    Ooh Wattle are you a Caesar fan? Unfortunateley dogs can change in a heartbeat what starts out as harmless fun for them can rapidly change to something far more sinister. nature of the beast. I have so many horrific dog/livestock stories it would take me forever to list them. **)
     
  19. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    Yes lollipop :) A huge fan and advocate. So I went and bought a no-red breed for the kids at Xmas. Totally ditzy and ridiculous in her innocence....but less responsibility in temperament :)
     
  20. lollipop

    lollipop Active Member

    Me to.**) i have a couple of red zone dogs and his books, DVD's and even TV shows have been very educational and inspirational in helping me train these dogs correctly. he is a champ.:D
     

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