Colic article and treatments?????

Discussion in 'Horse Management' started by moodymare, Mar 19, 2008.

  1. nannygoat

    nannygoat Gold Member

    Thanks for that. I used it many, many years ago on a pony because it was given to me, then afterwards I read the ingredients and was horrified! Nothing like reading the label after the event.....but said pony was okay and I did think then that he would have been alright had I not intereferred.
     
  2. palomino6661

    palomino6661 Active Member

    colic needs to be treated with a vet any way if you do not know what you doing pluse any horse is going to get the sand back in small lots any way they eating off the ground everyday unless you put your horse in a stable all day.if the vets had a better solution to use than parrafin oil they will i guess we can sugesting to use these things what if people dont do the right way to use. i wouldnt be giving any horse berg oil at all. its got poisons in it
     
  3. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    Thank you Warwick, and I agree a 4 hour trip is definately worth it to a dead horse ( my recent middle of the night stint is still inbedded in my brain) and it is interesting that you mentioned in a later post that not all colics need treatment.. this is my concern when confronting with that long drive, when does a person make that judgement call, do we just walk the horse for an hour or so and adminster nothing then if colic passes, okay, but if worsens then take the horse.. is this the best procedure??

    I would hate to drive all the way to Perth and rock up with a perfectly happy horse, knowing I have left an irate boss behind, or more still the weekend or dead of night stints... not meaning that I want my horse to be sick of course but just to know when to and when not..

    BTW I think it is fantastic that you have come on here with your expertise
     
  4. moodymare

    moodymare Well-known Member

    wow wow and thanks now I am well armed with heaps of info and will work out a colic prevention strategy for my paddock vacumme, we are also investigating her feeds, but as a time poor mum and night shift worker I will need to work something out for soaking hay.
    Thanks again to warwick, its not every day you get a vets opinion here and it is greatly appriciated.
     
  5. snoopydoo

    snoopydoo Well-known Member

    It's a difficult call - when to get the vet out for colic. My pony has had quite a few colic attacks in the last few weks. The last 2 I have not called the vet out because he was still passing poo. The first of these he was still well enough to be lunged and let out a terrific load of gas once he was trotting. He was let out in a paddock with his friends afterward and started charging about with more "jet" power. He did go down to roll and the lady at my agistment centre called me back, but he was up and grazing happily by the time I arrived. He was fine after that. The last time he was still managing to pass poo but he was in more discomfort. He was still eating so after a load of hay and his normal feed he seemed ok. However, the vets is a 5 min float ride away so it's a different decision for me than if the vet were hours away.
    I think what I'm saying is you get to know after a few attacks if it's bad colic or not and can base your decision on thaat and your own gut feeling.
     
  6. Happypaint

    Happypaint Well-known Member

    Just curious as to what "preventative" measures people are using for sand colic?

    We have typical Jandakot sandy paddocks so we have been giving our two horses weekly bran mashes with a litre of white paraffin oil and molasses to disguise the taste. The horses eat this readily. This along with lots of hay seems to be working but is fairly expensive with the cost of the oil. Being Summer we have just tried the 5 days of Psyllium husks to see how that goes but is too soon to comment. Obviously the next few months will tell with the grass growth etc.

    Any other suggestions?
     
  7. sambo

    sambo Well-known Member

    Hi HP@)

    It would appear that getting your vet to drench would be the best plan of attack?!!

    I use the Oleary "Drench" myself but it has not been tried scientifically so the powers to be will not recommend it. Each to there own. I can't see how the natural ingredients would hurt, maybe someone could break down what is actually in that drench. To me it is a fatty/oily substance???!!!

    Hay seems to be something that everyone agrees with. Also things like putting a mat or some kind under your horses feed and hay. Not over rugging, feeding good quality feed. If you go onto the Horse Problems website he has all these things listed to help prevent your horse from getting colic.
     
  8. Happypaint

    Happypaint Well-known Member

    Thanks for that Sambo**)

    I have been asking a lot of people their opinions on the O'leary's recipe and most feel that it is worth a go and not likely to cause any harm. I am not rushing in to give it but I am also not ruling it out as a possible treatment for sand. How often do you treat your horses with it? Have you had any side effects worth commentating about? Seems to be a lot of people praising it's effectiveness but none have actually said they had problems after using it. It seems more say they wouldn't use it as it strays from the "Normal" treatment of sand colic.

    As far as the concern of the O'leary's ingredients..........weren't horses raised feeding from their mum's teat? It sure aint water or oil that comes out from that!!!! The only concern is the high level of sugars involved and the effects that may have.
     
  9. Feuer

    Feuer Guest

    I wasnt going to reply again to this thread after the OLeary remedy bashing but....

    Happypaint...I have used it myself....the only thing I will say is to use it as recommended by Mr HP.

    I overused it....did it 3 times in a row...once a week on my pallie and he got the runs a little.

    I have to admit I was extremely sceptical about it before I tried it but my mare that usually colics this time of year seems very happy and hasnt colicked at all yet....so I am only going off my own experiences...we have extreme sand and dust up here in Gero....it is the sandiest place ever I am sure!!

    But of course if you are not happy feeding it then I would suggest you consult with your vet about another plan of attack on colic.

    I watched the neighbours horse die a few months back and he had been drenched by a vet a few times in a row....nothing saved him BUT his owners unfortunately did not seem to be trying to prevent colic beforehand....very sad :( Wasnt the vets fault....bad management I would think would be more of a factor.
     
  10. sambo

    sambo Well-known Member

    Yes Feuer it is very much about good horse practices. Which John goes into on his website. All of it sounds like very sound advice!**)

    HP, i only have the one horse and i have only used it for a short amount of time. (about 4 times) Touch wood i have not had any side effects and i also have not had him colic. Now that is not to say that that won't happen, but i am trying to prevent the possibility of it happening! You can't blame people for trying to PREVENT their horses from getting colic. Prevention is defintley better than the cure!:)

    As for how often Feuer has that down pack. I think she said every six months and that she repeats it 2 weeks later. Correct me if i am wrong F. Oleary recommends once a year but they do it twice and he does stress to seek Vet advice first when trying new things!!;)

    It would be great if someone did more testing with it!
     
  11. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    Last time I looked into "mare's milk" it wasnt cows milk which has a completely different composition and certainly didnt have that massively high level of sugar!

    How does the HP drench work??....well it will work on this theory.....emulsifying sand trapped in the gut whilst at the same time it causes an osmotic diarrhoea as the gut tries to cope with the high sugar load which will in turn helps flush out the emulsified sand.

    Sounds good??!! Does it actually do this??? I actually dont think it could do it to any great extent, the fats/oils are broken down in the gut quickly therefore having reduced action...it would definitely causes an osmotic and most likely an irritant diarrhoea that may result in anything from a diarrhoea to a bit more sloppy manure pile. The theories of oil, oil + epsom salts and psyllium as just as fabulous sounding but at least each of been looked into to see the extent of how good they actually are at actually removing sand!!

    The drench has not been "bashed" it has just been pointed out that it is only anecdotal reports of success, I have also personally heard of 2 horses that died from sand colic after using the HP drench for prevention...so there is a couple of anecdotal reports of unsuccess which purely highlights the need for the drench's effectiveness to be proven!!
     
  12. Pockets

    Pockets Gold Member

    Just because people don't agree with you or ask relevent questions doesn't mean the remedy had been 'bashed'! Sorry Happypaint but I too was raised from Mums teat lol doesn't mean I wouldn't feel really sick and have a massive gut ache if I drank milk,cream and honey together;)
     
  13. equislave

    equislave Well-known Member

    My answer is research. There are numerous remedies and preventions for colic and like with anything there is research to support or debunk each one. Everyone needs to make up their own mind by reading current articles, speaking to vets and having discussions on forums like this. Like anything it is an area in which there is ongoing research and development but at the end of the day I just go with what my vet says as I trust him and his methods. There are so many factors that determine whether a horse gets sand colic and sometimes no matter what you do it will happen anyway.
     
  14. Feuer

    Feuer Guest

    RR...there is NO spasmodic diarrhoea...the remedy does not work like this at all.
    Thats terrible about those 2 horses that died....I really cant see how they died from these ingredients though??? Did they write in to Mr HP?? Maybe I should point out this thread to him so he is aware of this? Did this happen in WA?

    Sambo....yes, when you first start using the remedy...it is once then a fortnight later then once every 6 months.:)

    Pockets...I have no problem with people NOT agreeing with me.....but I do think some things have been said from people that it seems have not actually tried the remedy themselves.
    Its like the psillium husks....I tried this method over and over and still my mare kept on colicking...why on earth would I walk around saying how "great" it is when it didnt work for my horse. But at least I tried it...and I have the experience for it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2008
  15. sambo

    sambo Well-known Member

    Hi RR@)

    That is just it though, had the horses had other drench treatments prior, or was that the first time? How soon after did they colic? What else where the horses given? Where they in the process of colicing??? Was a vet called out??? Who knows???:confused:

    If my horse did get colic, i would call the vet, not try to shove stuff down his throat. I use the HP "drench" as a preventive!! As well as using the other suggestions on his site!:)
     
  16. Feuer

    Feuer Guest

    Exactly right Sambo....as a preventative measure :) I still feel upset about the neighbours horse dying when I know they did nothing to prevent it.

    Certainly if my mare or gelding needed the vet I would get him out to her in a heartbeat**)
     
  17. Horsetalk

    Horsetalk Well-known Member

    Feeling your pain here Taylorc. ;) :confused:
     
  18. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    Osmotic laxative action or irritant action on the gut does not equal spasmotic diarrhoea!! Osmotic laxative action retains and may draw water into the bowel and irritant action speeds it up so that water doesnt get absorbed. The net result will vary in the individual horse, some my scour some may just have more water content to their manure! You would hope these action DO happen because if they dont there is not way that it would work. I would be extremely interested to hear how you think it works then!?? :))

    Each of these horses had the HP drench as a "preventative". They did not "die" from the ingredients they died from "colic" and most likely sand impaction colic! I am not going to ask them if they wrote to HP about the lack of success of the "drench".....I felt it was a bit mean to bring up the "drench" when the horses died as both owners were advocates of the drench like yourself. Go on then point it out to HP if you like! **)
     
  19. Horsetalk

    Horsetalk Well-known Member

    Must have misunderstood you Taylorc, sorry, all so much clearer now thanks.;) I have no more to say, all has been said. :)
     
  20. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    Sorry Sambo I missed this. I am unsure of the fine details of treatment as I was not present, but each horse was treated with the drench as part of preventative treatment and still ended up with colic. Both horses were owned by different people, however both lived on the sand planes of Perth. Horses were different ages and different breeds. Yes both went through veterinary treatment. The point is, the drench was used as "preventative" and still horses got colic....this is not surprising, even if the drench is positive towards reduction in sand colic nothing is 100% effective and then all the other factors have to be taken into consideration eg. other management practices etc
     

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