Class of horse or pony in minis

Discussion in 'Horse Showing and Events' started by WP Miniatures, Nov 4, 2008.

  1. WP Miniatures

    WP Miniatures Active Member

    Hi All,
    I have a question for those who have been in the mini world longer than I, and may know the reasons why the following is as it is.

    Why are horses and ponies not classified by a registry and certified as Horse or Pony at the time of there adult registration (4Years).

    Like there is a group who do measuring, look at the animal and go over the description of the class and make the recommendation of the class Horse or Pony. There would have to be an agreed description and measurements set down prior by the association concerned, which I have seen in information from some other sources.

    If the owner agrees they are then registered as a horse or a pony and that is the class they are shown in from then on and then not available to class swap.

    If the owner disagrees then a committee is to view and measure the horse etc to make the decision. The owner could then accept the decision or take it to the registry committee.

    This is the only horse breed were I have seen horses and ponies in the same class and being judged as one. This would save some of the confusion in the ring for judges etc as well.

    What do you think?
    Am I thinking too much? LOL
    I see it as an advantage to all and to the societies.

    Last edited: Nov 4, 2008
  2. Elanda

    Elanda Gold Member

    As some one totally new to mini showing...I think it is a great idea.
  3. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    I used to breed ASSP's and we all had to go up for classification as 2 yr olds and they then had the "P" brand put on them, it kept the breed fair and to regulation.

    I am not sure if that would work though, but I do agree you see ponies in the horse ring and vice versa, it would unify the standards, the only problem with 4 yr old is that many have stopped showing by then

    It is like this HFA thing, many foals grow at different rates, and shows are screaming for entries, life would be so much simpler if they had a 2yr height stipulation and a 4 yr old one.. that would get many more minis out into the ring and stop the awful confusion of horses going from small horse/mini and back again as they grow, lets face it the majority of over height mini's are already over height as a 2 yr old and you know which category to go in

    Height and type classification could all be done at the same.. but somehow i just couldnt see this happening :D
  4. rpmm

    rpmm New Member

    Yes WP good point. Years ago MHAA did have a classification process were people had to submit photos to get their horses registered with MHAA. There were 5 people who used to receive the pictures and then all would say whether they agreed it was horse or pony. The problem with this was some people could doctor their pictures to make their pony look like a horse. Nowadays it would be even easier to do. If we did have a classification process:

    1. Who would assess the horse/pony?
    2. Imagine the cost of doing this with members stretched far and wide.
    3. How many people would assess?
    4. What sort of qualifications/knowledge would we accept?

    We could have classification days but this would also be very hard to organise and some people would be unable to attend. In America they only have miniature horse (AMHA). All are shown under one banner whether they be pony type or horse. It is really up to the judge here to decide whether they are in the wrong class. We do have some judges here in WA who know the difference. I agree there are some people who show ponies in horse classes and I have seen ponies that should be in horse classes. It really comes down to educating the owners. Also some people have horses that are registered MHAA AND NMR pony. Yes it really is not right but unfortunately how can we change it?
  5. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    being a relatively new breeder and joining both NMR and MHAA, I have to admit very little information is given to the new members and I found lots of things very confusing to start with.
    Not everyone has a computer so cannot get all the info and paperwork on line, wouldnt it be simple when a member joins that they get a welcome to the society and a info pack with ALL documents and requirements with detailed standards of excellance and photo's, so we know what to breed, how to breed and what and when paper work needs to be in.
    I know when I first sent of paperwork to the MHAA, My computer wasnt working and all my stuff was sent back because I didnt have a work form with it.. I was like WTF is a work form, really frustrating as I had no idea until my computer was working again, so how do new members get on if the dont own a computer??
  6. Elanda

    Elanda Gold Member

    As Delrae said...the ASSP used to have classification days. It was up to you to get your pony there if you wanted it classified:)
  7. VIP Girl

    VIP Girl Well-known Member

    Definately agree Delrae. I know when I joined the APSB society I got so much information I was reading it for weeks. I think all societies should look after there members as they are the ones who bring them the money.
  8. mini magic

    mini magic Active Member

    It is made rather complex with all this height for age stuff. For new members like myself its hard to get your head around and I find it easier to ask more experienced members if im unsure about anything? **)
    As for the 'Is he horse or pony debate' My colt has been changed back and forth twice! and is currently registered as Horse. But he is now swinging more towards Pony at age 3 ARGG!! If there was a Refined Pony classification that would make things more confussing but for types like my Colt thats where he belongs! :D
  9. WP Miniatures

    WP Miniatures Active Member

    Great that people are thinking about this as I was worried it may start something other than a discussion.
    My thoughts on your questions.

    #1 A group of experenced breeders or commitee members, elected or nominated by members.
    #2 It could be done 4 times a year at selected shows and if organized everybody would know in advance and have had them done or prepared to be done, just like measuring.
    #3 I would suggest at least 3, this leave others available should some one disagree with the accessement.
    #4 I would accept 5 plus years of breeding good knowledge of the breeds to be a good starting point.

  10. rpmm

    rpmm New Member

    Good points but you will always get people saying I am not having such and such assessing my horse/pony. Also I think MHAA is just too big and there would be a lot of people who just would not be able to get to shows or whatever to have their horses assessed. Might work for NMR but I don't think it would work for MHAA. I really think it is up to the individual to decide what category to class their horse/pony. Just because you breed two "miniature horses" together does not necessarily mean they will get a "miniature horse" and the same with pony. There are a lot of new people joining miniatures and there are a lot of people who can offer advice who have been breeding miniatures for a number of years. Maybe we could run "Miniature Days" where people could come and learn what the difference is and the more experienced miniature people could give talks, demonstrations, etc. Unfortunately you will always get people who no matter what you say will insist their animal is a horse not a pony. Anyway just my thoughts!!!!
  11. Sassy

    Sassy Gold Member

    You get a copy of the constitution and rule book with membership? dont you? im pretty sure i did :confused: what more info do you need...

    I am not exactly "new" anymore to minis, but I havent really bothered to learn the ins & outs, but its really just common sense that tells you some things just cant be done due to time & lack of resources (like a license to own pets).

    The thing with dual reg MHAA & NMR Pony, is that in the east, most of the large studs are solely MHAA, and the ponies are AMPS - so who is going to go through the motions of joining AMPS when there 2 horses breed a chunka? I wouldnt... but here in WA, we have NMR, so its easy to swap & change between the two.
  12. Sassy

    Sassy Gold Member

    And just another point, I for one am not going to go around & clip every mini I own to be classified. I only have 3 or 4, imagine those that have 100's! and this is also australia wide, so would you put your team of panelists in a bus and trek them all over the state (or country, depends how many panels you want) to go out to the farms that have over 100 minis to be classified?

    Its a great concept, but one that is far too large for the organisations IMO

  13. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    Plenty sassy, for the new breeder/ owner of mini's who knows about and has all the paperwork such as stallion/mare returns, upgrades worksheets (MHAA) and heaps more

    now if a info pack was sent to all new owners especially if they register as a breeder, then a copy of every form they are going to require and relevant information as to when they will be needed by
    Also detailed information regarding the difference between horse/pony and pics of ideal type (NMR)

    If you are new, it is very hard to know other mini people to start with and I know I am a little dumb but I was totaly baffled a few times last year with what to do
    Once these info packs are set up, it is just sending them out to all new members when they apply and it could just make things a little simpler for the newbie
  14. WP Miniatures

    WP Miniatures Active Member

    True what you say Di about the info packs, The arab society do a good one and the AMHA do an ok one and send you a coloured copy of nearly every form that you may require to deal with them.
  15. Sassy

    Sassy Gold Member

    Im still not sure exactly what information you are wanting Di?

    info on stallion returns etc? I think its reasonable to expect people who join as a stud/breeder should have some idea whats required, plus all the information is on the website (mhaa anyway). I havent actually read the rule book etc is there any chance its already in there?
  16. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    sassy, you didnt read my first post properly regarding NOT using the website, not everyone has a computer. You should have all relevant paperwork sent to you like WP says for you to photocopy etc, or like me when my computer was dead for weeks, I couldnt get a works order form and dont have the luxury of using another computer
    I think it is a common courtesy to explain your society to a new member instead of slugging them $11 everytime they make a mistake whilst they learn the ropes.
    Also a how the heck would a first time breeder know anything about returns is alright for those that have bred for years it is just another society
  17. Sassy

    Sassy Gold Member

    sorry di missed that bit!

    Altho, NMR sends out your returns forms once a year, along with a heap of other forms. (transfers etc). MHAA are pretty slack, but I think they are undermanned for the amount of members.
  18. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    yeah have to admit, NMR are pretty good and so easy to deal with **)
  19. RPM

    RPM Well-known Member

    There are plenty of people you can ask with what is needed to send paper work in etc. MHAA also send out their constitution/standard of excellence/rule book when you join plus if you are a member of MHAA and get Finelines it tells you what is needed in there and usually has forms in there as well.

    Now with classifications sounds like a good idea but can't see it happening. The person who owns the horse/pony should be able to tell if their animal is a horse or pony, look at bone and over all appearance and if you are still unsure ask someone who is more experienced with miniatures, I am sure they would be more than happy to help. I know we would be.

    Just remember as well.....just because a foal is out of two animals that are registered horse does not mean the foal will be a horse later on and same as if a foal is out of two registered ponies may not mean the foal will be pony later on. It all boils down to the individual animal not it's breeding :))
  20. mini magic

    mini magic Active Member

    Right on Delae! What you said was spot on!! Its not always obvious whether your mini is horse or pony! Not all Ponies are Chunkers and not all Horses are twiggs! no offence intended **)
    Some forms are not even available on the website, you need to ring up and get it posted. If info packs where sent out to new members not only would we have the forms handy when we needed them but it would educate new members as to when these forms are needed. Or maybe im just a sucker for reading material :D

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