Chestnut carrying silver

Discussion in 'Colour Questions' started by Delrae, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    If you have a horse that is a chestnut carrying silver... ie it has no black gene for the silver to affect colouring is it a dilute??
  2. Sassy

    Sassy Gold Member

    technically yes - but to be accepted in registration i think you need testing to confirm. The only other way to prove they carry the gene is if the horse has produced a silver foal from another non-silver parent.

  3. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    Thanks sassy, he would have to go to a none chestnut though wouldnt he??
  4. Sassy

    Sassy Gold Member

    haha yeh, the foal would need to be non-chestnut and showing the silver gene - if he throws alot of chestnuts (silver or not) it wont really help! (and of course itd 100% ch from another ch lol)

    Who have you got thats possibly silver?
  5. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    Junior and Toby, grandsire Sterling paper money.. this was the posibility that I was given from america but I havent as yet done the test
  6. Remaani

    Remaani Guest

    Below are 2 Silver's.

    Sterling Paper Money.
    (Sire of Silver & Rocco, also grandsire of Smokey)


    Minielf Paper Dancer, son of SPM, he's same colour as Morgan isnt he Delrae? (sire of Smokey, whom is out of Rayne)

  7. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    They are very similar but she is a lot more redder


    Toby, he also has the classic stripey hooves and silver eye lashes and all of them have the paler legs

    BTW what silver is SPM??
  8. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    oops Remaani, I forgot to mention that we also complicate the colour by also including the roan gene :D
  9. Tintara

    Tintara Well-known Member

    Now that there is a DNA test available for silver, chestnuts carrying silver (or stealth silvers!) are eligible for registration as silvers and may be shown as such. This is the same concept as that for black buckskins which are also eligible for buckskin registration and can be shown in buckskin classes. UPWBDA's website needs to be updated to reflect this information (apologies but too much to do and too few hands to do it*#) ).

    Of course, as Sassy says, they must return either a positive DNA test for silver, have produced a silver foal from a non-silver, black based partner OR be by or out of a DNA'd homozygous silver (a homozygous silver of course produces 100% silver offspring regardless of base colour).
  10. Gamblin Paint Bred

    Gamblin Paint Bred Well-known Member

    Is there a test for Black Buckskin and Dun. If yes how do you get one done. Thanks very much**)
  11. Pinto Lover

    Pinto Lover Well-known Member

    Yeah what GPB said **) I would like to know if Cleo carries any dilute genes as her folks are all dilutes **)
  12. Sassy

    Sassy Gold Member

  13. Kintara

    Kintara Well-known Member

    I get all my colour testing done in America, there is some limited tests over hear I think but I just prefer to send to America. With the US dollar the way it is, it's cheaper anyway!

    They can test for cream (so black buckskin), dun is limited. It's only a new test and doesn't actually test for dun but markers near it. They might require hair from parents too, to identify the markers.

    My shettie colt came back homozygous silver which I though was very cool, and I have a tested silver gypsy cob colt arriving later this year. Maybe I should join the dilutes society!!

  14. Tintara

    Tintara Well-known Member

    I thought they'd misspelt my log in name when I first saw yours!!


    Sounds like a good idea to me but then again, I'm biased:)*

    The link provided by Sassy is the one UPWBDA uses although they don't have the dun test yet. Dun needs to be done through UC Davis and they also do all the others. Bit more of a process though to get it done as you have to contact them for permits and so on.

    Cost through the lab the above link goes to is $25 US per test which isn't much more Australian and if you do it with your credit card they'll work out the exchange rate. You'll get results back within 10 - 14 days via email and then a hard copy certificate a few weeks later.

    With silver, it also pays to have the agouti test done if you have one of those dark brown or chocolate ones and you want to know whether s/he is black or brown. Bay silvers are pretty self evident.
  15. Kintara

    Kintara Well-known Member

    I didn't realise there was a Tintara when I put in Kintara :eek:

    I have lots of buckskins and taffies so I might have to look into the UPWBDA!

    I use the Pet DNA services and found them good. I'd have to use UCDavis for Pearl and Dun though. Would the UPWBDA accept the certificates from Pet DNA AZ?

    My gypsy colt was out of a chestnut mare carrying silver, she just looked like any other chestnut. So my silver colt was quite a surprise!

  16. Tintara

    Tintara Well-known Member

    UPWBDA accepts DNA results from any accredited lab. They just chose to put links to Animal Genetics on their website because of the low cost and the ease of sending samples to them plus their good turn around time for results.
  17. sylvasprings

    sylvasprings New Member

    on a black horse, test for cream, For the black buckskin- Smokey black is the correct term, hopefully more people will catch up with the correct terms soon. The PHAA have laid them down in their rulebook.
    The same with chestnut hiding silver, doesn't make any difference to the horses visual colour. I would recommend breeding to a black horse but it would be faster and cheaper to test for the Z gene in the US.
    I prefer to keep 'dilute term' to the cream gene horses as you don't get double dilutes with silver.
    I have never heard of anyone calling a silver a dilute before.
  18. Tintara

    Tintara Well-known Member

    "I have never heard of anyone calling a silver a dilute before."

    Granted, here in the southern hemisphere it is a relatively newish concept but everywhere else in the world it is now generally accepted that there are at least 5 coat pigment dilutions known to exist in equines – cream, silver, dun, champagne and pearl. Personally I believe that the term ‘double cream dilute’ should be used when referring to cremellos and perlinos as technically anything that carries 2 dilutions is a ‘double dilute’.

    Silver is a coat pigment dilution because it dilutes black pigment, particularly in the mane and tail where it has a more intensive effect similar to that of cream on red horses ie the white manes and tails of palominos. Champagne is also a coat pigment dilution because it dilutes both skin and hair pigment. Pearl also modifies coat pigment by diluting it to a lighter colour and when inherited in double dose or with a copy of cream also dilutes skin pigment.

    The only one I would perhaps query is dun but even the dunning modifier does lighten or dilute coat pigment so ………….

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