Breeding Colour

Discussion in 'Breeding Horses' started by Stockmans Farm, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. Que

    Que New Member

    But there are plenty of small QH's that are better off small ;) ie: cutting horses, it wouldn't be an easy job for a 16.2hh QH.
    Also you have cremello mares that you regularly breed to your Chestnut QH so aren't you then breeding for colour ?
     
  2. Our cremello mares had breeding, type and height to compliment our chestnut stallion.:} It was breeding for type with a bonus of color.:p Thanks for taking notice in our breeding stock.:)*
     
  3. GGS

    GGS New Member

    Some people study genetics and some people study colour genetics!#( They have little thought (or perhaps it is knowledge) for good conformation or decent pedigrees. I to have bred a fair bit of colour, totally unintentionally, there is absoluteley nothing wrong with colour breeding as long as the knowledge of bloodlines, conformation and in some breeds performance genetics come before the desire to breed a multi coloured, ugly, ill bred animal. There is no doubt colour sells to the mass market it is only the serious competition homes of certain disciplines that will buy a horse on its merits not its colour.:))
     
  4. Que

    Que New Member

    So how big are you producing these QH's? & what discipline are you aiming them at? the rulebook states 14-15.2hh and I know of many within this range so Im unsure why there is a need to breed larger unless your targeting the HUS market?
    Height rarely has a large effect on performance in the western arena, I know of many small horses who excell in a range of disciplines.
     
  5. Roxette

    Roxette New Member

    too big

    Exactly, so why are you concerned with horses that a bigger. I and many others are glad that there are breeders who are breeding larger QH's. Some people just want a larger animal to ride with the versatility and temperament of a QH. A colt over 16h has won the Moonbi cutting futurity and maturity and the ladies cutting at the NCHA national finals. Riding The same horse at the Qld QH Champs I won the open cutting (beating Chilla, Rob Mackay, Ian Francis, Alan Edgar to name a few) and then went straight into the trail ring and won the open trail and place 2nd in the open pleasure.

    Another "big horse" as a 2yr old, won the junior trail at the AQHA champs (his first ever trail class ) then went on to win the big 2yr old pleasure futurity, 3rd in the trail futurity, and the following weekend placed highly in the non-pro cutting futurity. As a 2yr old he had a ROM in halter and general performance. At the age of 3yrs and 4months he was an AQHA champion. his winnings are too long to list.

    Another "big" gelding who eventually went to NZ used to win cutting, pleasure, trail, cowhorse, reining and english. He also "kicked ass" in NZ. Hi high point awards are too numerous to mention. Yeah for the "big boys". If this is what big boys can do I will take one on any day.

    Just like at the other end of the scale I used to jump a little boy who used to also "kick ass" against bigger horses

    As for the rule book it is not always adhered to: page 161 - Western pleasure - He should carry his head and neck in a relaxed, natural position, with HIS POLL LEVEL WITH OR SLIGHTLY ABOVE THE POLL and A FREE FLOWING STRIDE OF REASONABLE LENGTH. HOW MANY PEOPLE SHOW LIKE THIS AND HOW MANY JUDGES TAKE THIS INTO CONSIDERATION?

    Let's not "bag" horses for being too big or too small. We all come in all shapes and sizes so it's good that horses do to. Let us just enjoy these wonderful creatures and let them excel in their own domain even if that is just trail riding, or chasing cows through the bush ( but not with their noses so low to the ground that they can't see what's up ahead) LOL
     
  6. Roxette

    Roxette New Member

    PS the "big boy" who went to NZ is pictured left - not a bad cutting horse - winning futurities, NCHA finals, NCHA high point awards etc, etc, I sure would love to have him still in my "big boy barn"
     
  7. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Que not sure what part of the horse world you hail from but its obvious that you don't have alot to do with the QH.

    I don't think QH's over 15:2HH are confined to those used just for HUS. My old HighPoint gelding was all traditional performance horse breeding and he did W/P, cattle work, reining, and some very basic hacking. He stood 16HH.

    Height CAN have an impact on the ease with which a horse performs certain disciplines. Thats an anatomical fact...but more importantly BULK has the greatest impact in western performance in events like cutting and reining especially.

    I personally believe that breeders and competitors are judged on the scope of their individual success in the wider market place. Breeders who consistently turn out horses that sell well because they live up to the genetics they offer are pure example of "doing something right". Equally said the same goes for trainers or clinicians ect.
    They are judged on the number of times they have frequented the blue ribbon line ups and the quality of the events they attend and compete in.
     
  8. Que

    Que New Member

    There are exceptions to every rule :) and I can also state a number of horses that are over the 16hh mark BUT the majority are not, alot of horses by the leading WP sire in Australia are not over 15.2hh & neither are the majority of cutting horses.

    I cannot agree more with your statement below :

    ''They are judged on the number of times they have frequented the blue ribbon line ups and the quality of the events they attend and compete in.''
     
  9. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Not sure how you can state that the majority are not over 15:2HH. Just as someone can't really make the same statement that the majority of cutting horses are below a certain height. How would you or I know?

    I certainly don't have access to the heights of every registered QH - here or overseas. But a big reality is that many breeders (here & O/S) have actively sort to outcross to TB to gain back the height lost over the last two decades.
    This in itself says alot. It also explains the huge popularity of breeding QH to Australian Stock Horse.....to regain lost height and to an extent lost ground covering ratios.....its why I bred my stallion - using the best genetics I could obtain.

    The QH breed comes in lots of sizes - just as the breed itself competes in lots of disciplines. I'd say Newtons Law of gravity says that very large people are not going to sprint or hurdle, and sprinters don't make good weight lifters or shotputters. While some horses cross discipline well, the majority will struggle because of their physical makeup......
    But without some height and bone (which enhances longterm soundness) you don't really have much of a performance horse at all....
     
  10. GGS

    GGS New Member

    Would I be incorrect in saying that they are using TB a lot more in some of the QH lines for different disciplines?';' It is a shame the Australians aren't using more TB and less QH to breed into the ASH, they will follow the yanks eventually they always do.:} At least the TB is part of the breeds foundations unlike the QH which does not even originate in Australia. The TB has had such a great influence on so many breeds, personally I don't think there is anything more stunning than a top notch TB. EVP I must say your colt from all accounts has thrown more to his ma than his pa and is one of the better examples of the cross between QH and ASH.:)
     
  11. Roxette

    Roxette New Member

    In the 17th century, colonists on the eastern seaboard of what today is the United States began to cross imported English Thoroughbred horses with assorted "native" horses such as the Chickasaw horse, which was a breed developed by Native American people from horses descended from Spain, developed from Iberian, Arabian and Barb stock brought to what is now the Southeastern United States by the Conquistadors.

    One of the most famous of these early imports was Janus, a Thoroughbred who was the grandson of the Godolphin Arabian. He was foaled in 1746, and imported to colonial Virginia in 1756. The influence of Thoroughbreds like Janus contributed genes crucial to the development of the colonial "Quarter Horse."

    The breed is sometimes referred to as the "Famous American Quarter Running Horse." The resulting horse was small, hardy, and quick, and was used as a work horse during the week and a race horse on the weekends.

    As flat racing became popular with the colonists, the Quarter Horse gained even more popularity as a sprinter over courses that, by necessity, were shorter than the classic racecourses of England, and were often no more than a straight stretch of road or flat piece of open land. When matched against a Thoroughbred, local sprinters often won.

    As the Thoroughbred breed became established in America, many colonial Quarter Horses were included in the original American stud books, starting a long association between the Thoroughbred breed and what would later become officially known as the "Quarter Horse," named after the distance at which it excelled, with some individuals being clocked at up to 55mph +

    Westward expansion
    The modern Quarter Horse has a small, short, refined head with a straight profile, and a strong, well-muscled body, featuring a broad chest and powerful, rounded hindquarters. They usually stand between 14 and 16 hands high, although some Halter-type and English hunter-type horses may grow as tall as 17 hands.

    There are two main body types: the stock type and the hunter or racing type. The stock horse type is shorter, more compact, stocky and well muscled, yet agile. The racing and hunter type Quarter Horses are somewhat taller and smoother muscled than the stock type, more closely resembling the Thoroughbred. (Wikipedia)

    So as you can see the TB has played a big part in the establishment of the QH and is still accepted into the QH registry in I believe an appendix format.

    In Australia many early QH breeders bred their imported horse over their existing mares which were in many cased TBs and "stock horses" - to improve cattle sense, type, speed, temperament etc. producing many "cross breds" which were amazing horses excelling at polocross, campdrafting etc.

    In the early days of the ASH registration they accepted TBs, QHs(fully imported) Arabs, Ponies, you name it! They didn't seem to have a format for their "Standard of Excellence" which I think was unfortunate as the true ASH was pushed into the background and as you say may follow the US type QH instead of honoring the "bush/cattle horse" of Australia
     
  12. BugEye

    BugEye Active Member

    Here is one of our boys and he IS performance bred and still growing :)


    [​IMG]
     
  13. BugEye

    BugEye Active Member

    There is a difference. We sought after and purchased our yella boy to breed some colour. that we will not deny. But the difference is we made sure our boy had the conformation we seek then we coupled that with mares whose conformation was exceptional. By breeding the two groups together firstly we hope to achieve great balanced conformation in the progeny and then we hope to get some colour. Yes we are breeding for colour as it opens up the selling market but WE WILL NOT SACRIFICE CONFORMATION AND BALANCE to achieve this
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2011
  14. BugEye

    BugEye Active Member

    24hrs and no comment HMMMMMMM :}
     
  15. BugEye

    BugEye Active Member

    Just to show we are not fudging the measurement

    [​IMG]
     
  16. mirawee

    mirawee Gold Member

    Davrac, I don't believe you are "fudging" the measurement... but it isn't exactly very accurate if not done on a level flat area (concrete!) and if the measuring stick is out on an angle ;)
     
  17. BugEye

    BugEye Active Member

    Put on concrete he is 15.3hh. Stick appears to be "unlevel" but when you zoom in on level you can see bubble is actually too low so height should come up
     
  18. mirawee

    mirawee Gold Member

    Davrac, I am not talking about the level to get to his wither, but the stand... it looks like it is further away from him at the ground than at his wither :) I hate those type of measuring sticks with a passion. They are very inaccurate and I never get even close to my horses' official measurements using them! Not that I don't believe you that he is a big boy ;) And he is stunning regardless of how big he is :)*

    Also I don't get the measurements on the stick either... I am assuming the big number is hands, but have no idea what the small number is meant to represent. What is 15-62 meant to mean?
     
  19. Sassy

    Sassy Gold Member

    62 = total inches.
    60" = 15hh - so the measure is 15.2 all up
     
  20. mirawee

    mirawee Gold Member

    Thanks Sassy! Didn't even think it was the total inches that they were showing ROFL! My brain is still at home in bed I think :p
     

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