Discussion in 'Colour Questions' started by Golden Biscuit, Mar 12, 2008.
Thanks Goodie, that is what I thought! (hence my confusion lol)
yes buckskins can have a dorsal stripe..**)
But he would need WABA or UPWBDA foal reg to be shown, he can't be shown in colour classes with just his NMR reg**)
yes we could take him in any unreg coloured horse* we wont be showing him as a coloured horse anyway so no need for the reg, we were just excited thats all...
Cool**) best of luck, he is very cute
Thanks Goodie @)
Good lord, where to start ………
First up, could I please ask that if anyone has any queries with UPWBDA’s regulations that they contact the registrar preferably by email and get the correct information!!
This isnt so much directed at you BEB - but are they oblivious to the fact that without testing, if the horse "looks" black it could well just be black? having single dilute parents does NOT mean you definitely have a dilute.
Is there another reason they are willing to accept without testing?
No, UPWBDA at least is NOT oblivious to this. Their ruling is that DNA testing for cream IS required for all black or brown buckskins UNLESS one parent is a DOUBLE CREAM DILUTE ie a cremello or perlino OR the horse in question has produced a double cream dilute foal. I will get the wording on the website changed to read double CREAM dilute so we avoid this misinterpretation again.
Remaani is correct re the colour of this pony’s parents which basically means that he would be required to be DNA tested for cream if being registered as a buckskin. He would also probably need to be DNA’d for agouti to determine black or brown.
BEB, may I ask – possesses all the traits for what exactly ?? For instance, I’ve seen horses and ponies that possess all the traits for silver but when DNA’d for silver return a negative test result. There are some dilutions where visual interpretation of ‘traits’ is most definitely not the way to go when determining eligibility for registration as such and the fact that some breed societies will record colours based on that alone (bang on there, Sassy) is one of the reasons why there is so much misinformation about colour genetics. I personally know of horses that are registered as palominos with certain breed societies yet both parents are listed as chestnuts ……….. Also registered duns that have no dun parentage and so on.
He has all the qualities- appears black/brown with a golden irredecence, has a prodominant dorsal stripe and has the white hair in his ears and was recorded on his papers as a 2 yr old. Ummm, this means diddly squat I’m afraid without any DNA proof to back it up - see comment above re breed societies that register something as a particular colour just because the breeders says that's what it is. Likewise, the fact that he has a predominant dorsal stripe is also irrelevant because it isn’t a pre requisite of the buckskin colouring at all.
And on the subject of duns – any colour can carry primitive markings but unless the horse or pony in question actually carries the dun dilution modifier, they are not genetic duns. Many buckskins do carry primitive markings but the IDEAL colour for buckskins is as for palominos – clear coated, free of smutting, roaning, dapples and dun characteristics. This doesn’t mean that they can’t have them though.
I'm new to colour.
Can someone explain to me what a double dilute is?
Ok double dilute are horse that carry two dilute genes and are the perlino (double dilute on bay) or cremello (double dilute chestnut) these have to throw at least on dilute if mated so foal must be a dilute.
Single dilutes are your palminos/cream and your buckskins holding only one dilute gene with a solid gene. they may or may not throw it.
Any more than 2 genes is impossible and becomes "lethal white" and is impossible.
This is my understanding correct me if i am wrong.
THat is good news if they are registerable on foals as i know of a black stallion (born chestnut) who has thrown dilutes to solid parents . But the dilute is threee generations of black back meaning they must all be "black buckskins" - Correct?
Arnie, your shetty is a double dilute
Webby, i thought Lethal White only occured in Overo's? Havent heard of it through dilute genes before, - im just curious if this is right (having a single dilute, and I want to breed more lol).
Tintara - thankyou for clearing up the issue * - I didnt mean to offend UPWBDA - was just determining if acceptance on pedigree was correct (as I didnt think it was!)
For goodness sake i am getting a bit tired of having to defend myself on this forum! Thanks for all that info but seriously i just have my horses for FUN, he will not be registered with the UPWBDA and we are not even looking at showing him as a coloured horse!
All i said was that i was excited because i found out what smokey black was but hey i will just call him plain old black brown if it suits you all!
Thanks for all the info on dialutes but i think i will just stick to calling him brown if it will ruffle this many peoples feathers
BEB - dont take offence because we asked a few questions, you do not need to defend yourself, Myself in particular am just concerned that so many horses are reg incorrectly, has nothing to do with you or your fella
thank you sassy and that was not directed at you in any way
ok - calm down all!
Bella - people are just discussing colours. No one is having a go at you.
It is all useful information and people are asking what they are unsure of....
Back on track now!
i love his colour, whatever he is
he is gorgeous bella, i am sure you will have loads of fun with him, hes a little spunk
Nothing wrong with "plain old black brown" mate , i got a colt here that i wish was a fancy colour but he's "just a boring black with no chrome".
Colour isnt everything, its the horse as a whole. **)
Hi there, an interesting thread to read, BEB your little horse is a cutie!
Lethal white is found MOSTLY in frame overos, its totally something different from the creme gene - as Sassy has said. Hence why its usually called OLWS, Overo Lethal White Syndrome.
Thanks guys .
Still confusing but I kinda get it now! lol
Black buckskin and Smokey Black are not the same even though they are often called the same.
Smokey black is a dilute gene acting over a black base.
Buckskin(however dark) is acting over a bay base.
There is a difference.
You can often ,but not always, tell if the horse is dilute by looking at eye colour and inside ear colour.
i thought they were diff sam as they are diff base colours
my under standing is
solid - single -double
Chestnut - pally - cremello
bay - bucky - perlino
brown/black - smokey black - smokey cream
Sarahs boy tawyn's mum is a smokey black..Well from my understanding she'd have to be... she appears black/brown in colour, and since tawny is a double dilute, he'd have to get a cream gene from her and a cream gene from his dad(cremello)....