Big Stallion Little Mare?!?

Discussion in 'Breeding Horses' started by Carmadee, Jan 28, 2010.

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  1. Carmadee

    Carmadee New Member

    Of course, I know nothing about breeding so excuse my vagueness.
    But i've always wanted to cross a clydie with my mare 15.2hh ASH.
    One thing I'm worried about is if the foal (or stallion) may be too big.
    I havent taken any steps to action this. Just thinking
    What does everyone else think?
     
  2. MyShadowfax

    MyShadowfax Well-known Member

    I don't know much about breeding myself but asked my vet about this subject once and he told me stories about Clydies being bred to shetlands!!

    Obviously they used AI to impregnate the mare as the stallion was just way too big to mount the Shetland lol. Apparently once the mare is pregnant, the foal only grows to the right size for her to carry it to term and then once born they have been known to grow rather quickly!

    I wouldn't think 15.2hh is too small to breed with a Clydie but like I said I'm no expert!

    If you were thinking of doing it I would definitely get in contact with a good repro vet for advice **)
     
  3. alexander

    alexander Well-known Member

    Hi Carmadee

    Even if the mare is capable of carrying and delivering the foal I would not recommend the cross.

    When breeding a cold blood horse to a hot blood it is not recommended that you cross the cold blood stallion with a hot blood mare, the reason being that you will generally get a foal with a large head, small body and cold blood attributes, such as the feathering on the feet.

    Done the other way around the foals tend to have larger bodies and the refined head and legs of the mare, they also have the performance abilities of the stallion. The Irish sport horse is a good example of this. TB stallion to Irish draught mare.

    I have done this cross a few times using Percheron mares, but never the other way around.
     
  4. jacko88

    jacko88 Well-known Member

    As for actual breeding and foaling side of it I don't think you'd have any dramas.
    Was very common practice in some station country (and still is in some areas of northern SA) to run a heavy stallion (clydie or percheron) with the plant broodmares who would be of similar size to your mare.
    Offspring are commonly known as "clumpers"!
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  5. Carmadee

    Carmadee New Member

    Wow I didnt know any of this
    I'd love to know more if anyone has more to add
     
  6. Jadelise

    Jadelise Well-known Member

    Wow i never knew this, thanks for that info **)
     
  7. ZaZa

    ZaZa Guest

    I'm not a breeder, but I've always been lead to believe that the way Alexander described it best.
    Blood over bone is what I've always been told :)
    I always wonder why poeple choose to go the other way around ?
    Maybe it's to do with the availablity of T/B mares. Much easier to pick one of them up and put a Clydie, Andy, Fesian etc over it ?


    Good luck Carmadee with whatever you choose to do.
     
  8. Carmadee

    Carmadee New Member

    That conjours up funny pictures in my head now *#) te he

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Siren

    Siren Well-known Member

    haha,

    physically the mare will be able to carry the foal, the size of the stallion does not effect the size of the fetus to a point where they get too big- the fetus will just grow to be on the big end of the scale for what the mare can carry.

    but in saying that, the way others have put it 'Blood over bone" is true, much better to go the other way around. Although I have seen some nice types from a heavy stallion breeding.

    I have seen a foal resulting from a mini mare by a percheron x thoroughbred stallion - all natural!!! The mare escaped into the stallions paddock :eek: The filly was born just a little bit smaller than her dam, but is now around the 14hh mark, and a very very nice looking little horse.

    Seeing as though you already have the mare, and she is obviously is special to you. Id say go for it. But generally speaking, you would want to go the other way around.
     
  10. breakawaystud

    breakawaystud New Member

    Size issues.

    Hi,
    I think I have already explained this to someone else but dont know how to find it and/or cut and paste it for you but here is a brief outline, in as simple terms as I can make it! You can yell at me if I get too technical, seems I am a bit of a geek!
    The equine uterus and placenta interaction is unique in that it requires approx 95 % contact to be viable. So if a shetland mare is given a shire embryo, she will only produce, at birth, a foal the size of a normal shetland foal. However, if that foal has access to adequate nutrition etc it will be exactly the same size as the average foal born to shire dam.
    Basically, the equine fetus only grows to its environment. The biggest known and proven causes of dystocia (stuck foals) is mare obesity and disturbance at foaling.The size of the sire over the dam is not usually associated with foaling or foal growth problems. The resultant foals size can however be associated with in-adequate nutrition. Perhaps some of the foal nutrition 'geeks' can help with that question.
    Hope this helps.:))
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  11. citygirl

    citygirl Gold Member

    ditto

    well said Alexander too **)

    Cheers
    Lee
     
  12. sherreem

    sherreem Well-known Member

    yep was told this too by our vet so we went ahead and did it.

    mare was approx 11.2hh well built shetland welsh cross. the stallion was a purebred arab of approx 15.2 - 16hh
    the covering was natural and had no problems. the mare had had a foal 2 years prior to that to a 14.3hh pure arab and the foal grew to 12.3hh.

    it was quite comical to watch the mating as the stallion instead of trying to grap hold of the mares neck (which we didnt allow anyway) he had his head over the top of hers and bumped his nose on the post and rail fence infront of the mare.

    she foaled down with no problems and the filly (last i heard) grew to approx 13.3hh
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  13. Remaani

    Remaani Guest

    The greatest height difference i've done by live cover is 12.2hh mare & a 15hh stallion (well measured as a 4yo, he served the mare as a 2yo).
    I wouldn't do any more than that (via live cover) as you have to take into consideration the stallion's penis size. Might sound funny but i'm deadly serious.
    The resulting foal was born a TINY 29", the height of a small miniature (i have a mini mare here that height).

    I wouldn't do a 12hh mare to 16hh stallion unless it was AI but then visions of short legs, big heads pop up! :D
     
  14. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    I have done big stallion x over small mare many times and have never seen Big headed ponies??.........I have seen many crosses too of WB stallions over small pony mares and never seen big headed foals from them either.

    Perhaps its the size of the stallion/mares head and legs at the beginning that makes a difference on the resulting foal??.....Clysdales,Shires,ID's etc all have large workmanlike heads to begin with and many of these breeds also have shorter length of leg in comparison to their bodys.More often than not this seemingly passes through to off spring regardless of mare size....!
     
  15. Remaani

    Remaani Guest

    Re read what i said PC.
    I said "but then visions". Not saying the larger stallion over tiny mare is a given (big heads, little bodies). ;)
     
  16. F's rav dancer

    F's rav dancer New Member

    Yeah right... Sorry but I don't agree with some of the comments above... I have seen numerous Friesian stallions put over tb mares and the foals are outstanding.. of which I have two - one with numerous supreme exhibits to his name..

    I believe what you mean is depending on the style of the stallion you may end up with some traits you might not desire.. if that is the case do not choose that kind of breed...

    To me if your crossing a clydie/friesian/percheron etc over a tb mare it is because YOU like the traits of that horse such as long flowing mane/tail and feathering... most 50% crosses don't have the feathering but the higher percentage of clydie/friesian etc the more feathering

    My advice is if you find a stallion you like and has the traits you desire GO FOR IT..

    I was going to put my arab stockhorse mare to a Friesian stallion but she did not make the 45 day test.. to much of a stress bucket of a mare so I bought another 75% friesian...
     
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