Bad News Karla Fans!

Discussion in 'Horse Management' started by Arnie, Jan 22, 2010.

  1. Briz

    Briz New Member

    Oh gosh ((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))) Sarah :(

    I havent been on stockhorse for so long and have just seen this post :(

    You poor thing - what alot to go through for 1 little horse :( she much be tough though :D

    Keep your chin up - after the damage has been done each day things will get a little better, bloody horses hey - what kind of idiot would keep them :D :D

    I hope you get the latest injury fixed up soon and all is well with your little girl x
  2. biscay

    biscay Well-known Member

    How is she going Arnie???

    Agree with others posts about fences. As much as I am sure every single one of us would love to be able to put our horses in amazing fences that are horse proof, but sadly... A> We dont have the money and B> there is no such thing !!!!!!!! I had to retire my eventer due to severing his back tendons in a paddock accident. Post and rail fences. NOTHING out of place in whole paddock, yet we find him with a career ending wound.

    Now as for treating, I am another of the Honey diehards. Have had amazing results. When my horse had his float accident the vet could not beleive the only thing used on his 100+ stitches was honey and bandages. He healed great. I also , however, put on Silverzene pads. They are basically gauze bandaid patches, but where the gauze padding bit is, its all silver. You buy them at the Chemist and they come in a variety of sizes. Not exactly cheap, but I covered the wounds in honey, then placed these gauze bandaid things with silver side on the wound, then cottoned it then bandaged it. It really made an amazing difference.

    A lot of what we use on the wounds actually damages the ephipherial cells ( spelling? ) and can slow the growth of new cells, and this is where we get a lot more scarring too.

    Hmmm Saltriver, do you think you could pm me the whole vinegar thing??? ( if you read this ).... Would be very interested to learn about it. I have nearly paid off my vet bill, so am expecting another which seems to happen ever time I pay it off :p
  3. Arnie

    Arnie Gold Member

    Awww thanks guys!

    She's doing well. Her third bandage change is tomorrow.

    I have her on Silverzene cream...that stuff is not cheap by the tub!

    The vet saved half the skin flap thankgoodness then we all crossed our fingers it would not die.

    First bandage change the flap looked 'ok' but a little off. Second bandage change (Sunday) it had already re-attached to her leg by an inch of its edging AND it was freshly bleeding which is a GREAT sign that there's blood flow!

    Pain levels were high but as she heals she's getting better.
    I'm umming and arring about posting photo's as I feel like such a bad Mum or the bad luck she's been through :(. But your right Biscay! There is no such thing as perfect fencing! But I do think any kind of wire is a horses worst enemy!

    But she's on the mend :).
  4. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    Sorry to hear she has injured herself again......I'm not sure if you remember but the first time she did her leg I too had a very bad big open wound that I was dealing with.
    We spoke about honey and alot of others also recommened it.I know you used it briefly but didnt seem to see much response so turned to other products (I think!)

    Anyway our wound,which spanned the whole front of one hind cannon and was a good 2.5 inches wide has all but healed.The vet was here for 3.5 hrs trying to stich it all up and clean it and the horse was given 1 shot of long acting antibiotics.I was supposed to get more but didnt as I knew I'd never beable to give it as the horse is VERY needle shy.We didnt get the wound stiched either due to this problem!! Cowda Girl and Valdez were here to see it all (and help!)So this horse didnt even have a course of antibiotics to help aid infection!!.......

    Wound as of today!-We have NO scar at all and have just the final inch of healing still left at the very top of the wound.It is literally a few inches long and half a cm across.You can see it closing every day and the skin and hair growing back from the outside in.And this is all with honey,washing down with water,patting dry,putting honey on square swabs and then re bandaging once per week,occasionally longer or shorter if the bandge has slipped or come off.
    It was always stinky and abit funny colour but once you washed the gunk off,you could see the new fresh tissue coming though and healing as you want it too - from the inside out..

    I just thought I'd share this with you as I know you began to doubt the honey trick but honastly if you can stick with it,are prepared to put the time and effort into treating the wound long term (as this is not a quick fix!) you will get the same results I have done with every nasty injury I have treated with Honey for the past 15 yrs.You will not be left with any proud flesh and in most cases minimal if any scarring which is ideal on a resale value or show point of view!

    Also I have used ALL types of honey, from Coles own brand to expensive 'medical' grade honey (that I recently came across in a Deli in Mundaring!) ALL have given me the SAME result!

    Good luck and if you want to have a chat about it all please give me a ring!!;)
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  5. Arnie

    Arnie Gold Member

    Thanks Primrosecourt :). To be honest I'm not game enough to try honey again given her reaction before and the size of this new injury.
    I'm going to go with what the vet recommends which seems to be doing its job for now.

    If she scars she scars...I'm just glad she's sound :).
  6. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    Thats a shame to hear that as Honey is such an amazing thing and nothing needs to be scarred now a days (as long as you're prepared to put in the work with honey it will work )Good luck anyway.
    Funnily enough my vet actually recommends Honey, aswell as also using a more mainstream approach to wound management (not at the same time of course!).
    I havent heard of any reaction to honey as yet.Perhaps it was a reaction to something else??

    I dont know how big her wound was but if you could have only seen a Pointer we had back home who skinned both hind legs from hock to coronet band almost down to bone .The loose skin was hanging down like saggy tights around his feet
    After a long time packing with Honey and pressure bandaging he was left with the smallest of scarring but most importantly went back to resume a full PtoP career with no problems from the legs at all....

    when I saw this it was a turning point for me on my own horse management of wounds.I am kicking myself I didnt photo this horses leg now as I know its hard to believe unless you can see photos...

    Anyway each to their own I guess.Its saddens me when I see massive scars on so many horses here and I know if only they had been treated with honey,such a non invasive,safe,cost effective and more importantly proven treatment,they may never have been left with such horrific scars that went on to stop them having any sort of career at all.....a few of my broodmares are testiment to this!
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  7. Arnie

    Arnie Gold Member

    Primrose - I do not believe that because I choose not to use honey that all hope of not scaring is out the window. I do not believe honey is the miricle cure for all scars out there.
    I've used honey on a few other horses, listened to friends who have used it and it seems very much 50/50.

    Honey is good yes, but does not agree with my filly and I don't wish to experiment with her again and risk any further complications given the size of this injury.

    I still use honey on the rest of my horses if needed.

    Karla is in the best of care by myself and under close guidance of my vet also. Given she is only just over 6 months old gives me the added bonus that there may be a greater chance of little scaring given she's growing.

    But to be honest, scaring is not the end of the world. Yes I'm absoluted gutted, will do my best (without honey) to reduce scaring. But she is still sound and will make an awesome riding horse...and my best friend :).

    I am happy honey worked for you. But like you said, each to their own and I don't like to have the point pushed.
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  8. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    Wasnt pushing the point its just that its always worked for me and its such a good cheap alternative.....sorry if I touched a raw nerve/sensitive issue.Sorry for trying to help.................I'm sure little Karla will be just fine!
    Last edited: May 5, 2010
  9. Briz

    Briz New Member

    Primrosecourt - like many different things honey can cause an allergic reaction in people and animals alike.

    From what Arnie has said it sounds like it is possible Karla had such a reaction.

    Below is an excerpt from a Scientific Report and study conducted and written by the office of complementary medicines Australian in December 1998.

    "Allergy to honey is known to occur and can result in anaphylaxis, although such allergic
    reactions are not common. One source suggests that approximately 2% of people with food
    allergies may be allergic to honey. The allergenic components in honey may be derived from
    either bee or plant proteins."

    i think you are doing the right thing by following your vet's advice Arnie, after she has made such a mess of her leg and she continuously keeps hurting it i think things like your backyard remedies in your own head get the flick as you just want your horse to heal and the best way is with professional medical advice :)

    P.S. im not saying i dont agree with honey - i have used it successfully in the past but for something like Arnie has discribed honey just wouldnt cut it - particularly with such large area of flesh exposed - honey works best on the dry edges of the skin to keep moist that is why it can reduce scaring but if your horse is possible allergic it wont work :D
  10. Arnie

    Arnie Gold Member

    Primrose - I know you mean well and thankyou very much for the information.

    Briz - Thanks mate :). Your right, I'm not up to trying backyard remedies and the fact I've had success with creams from her previous injuries gives me all the more reason not to try anything else. If its working, why change!

    Silverzene however I have not used on her, I was using Prednoderm (sp?) with her previous injuries but my vet insisted that the Silverzene was best and prednoderm is not suited for this stage of injury.
    So far its doing well :).

    When I first mentioned honey to my vet for the previous injuries she certainly agree'd that its fine to give it a go and she had 'heard' that it could be good stuff.
    With this new injury I mentioned honey the day the vet first came out and she infact recommended leaving honey alone which I had chosen to do anyway.
  11. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    Isnt that for honey that is eaten??.......I havent heard of honey causing a reaction when applyed to skin except in Arnies case of course.
    Arnie-Honey isnt a backyard remedy :DIts beeen sucessfully and scientifically proven to have healing properties within it.I think it boils down to what success one has had with individual products and as I have had nothing but success with Honey I am a die hard fan when it comes to wound management in the most part.

    Anyway I shant 'push the subject anymore'.......thats all I have to say about Honey!
    Last edited: May 5, 2010
  12. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    i think anyone with a say peanut allergy will atest that if you apply it to the skin you get a reaction too, especially an area that is already inflammed and sensitive...

    Just saying its very possible allergic reaction to honey applied to the wound!

    Has any research been done into the use of honey for wound treatment? Would be intersted to read.

    (and why is this in the breeding section??)
  13. Arnie

    Arnie Gold Member

    Its changed course and I think best suited for management now :p.
  14. mirawee

    mirawee Gold Member

    I have had one horse who I tried honey on a fairly minor wound (not worthy of a vet) and it made it so much worse. Now maybe if I had continued with the honey it would have gotten better but I decided to try something else instead.

    I am used to wounds looking worse before they get better but not to the extent that my filly's did.

    So I have no issues with people trying something, it not working, and so trying something else :)

    I don't use prednoderm either as I have never had any luck with it yet so many people rave about it :confused:
  15. valdez

    valdez Well-known Member

    I can also say how amazed i was at the wonderful job the honey has done on Primrose' horses leg. The initial wound was scary!!!! and now it is nothing but a silvery line. I have never heard of a horse allergic to honey but as they say you live and learn :)

    Good luck with Karlas leg Arnie.
  16. Arnie

    Arnie Gold Member

    Totally agree.

    And as for prednoderm nearly everyone I've heard from has said they had no luck with it! It is what the vet supplied me with when she first hurt herself (and not like we have a range of choice up here :p) so against what people have said I tried it and had alot of success with it!

    So everyone preeches honey and it didn't work, everyone says prednoderm is useless and it was great! :p:D. Put it down to the individual horse.

    Have heard good stuff about silverzene and hoping we get good results from that aswell :).
  17. Happy Gambler

    Happy Gambler Well-known Member

    You're using what I did (after honey didnt work on my filly either), and she healed up great **)
  18. mirawee

    mirawee Gold Member

    Love Silvazine :)* Easy to deal with and works great on my horses :)
    Last edited: May 5, 2010
  19. Arnie

    Arnie Gold Member

    Thanks guys!!! Thats really good to hear! :D.
    She's certainly doing well so far on the cream :). I'm very happy with it.
  20. Jaana

    Jaana Well-known Member

    Silvazene is the best, worked an absolute treat on Tally's leg.

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